Otos & salt

[jsoong]

We bought a couple otos for my daughter's betta tank. Got em at Pet Smart (looks a bit pale & skinny but I wasn't going to drive across town to the good lfs for $4's worth of fish!). The girl at PS told us that they are pale because of fluctuating salt levels & that they are currently in 0.2% salt.

I always thought that otos are very sensitive to salt ... maybe I am mistaken? Currently I have them in QT in 0.15% salt (figuring that I should change the levels slowly).

Questions:
Can Otos tolerate salt? (I wouldn't mind giving these guys a 1 week 0.3% to treat for ich seeing that it is from PS).
Would there be long term damage with the lfs keeping them in 0.2% chronically? (Maybe this is one more reason why they are prone to dying at home?)
How fast should I drop the salt down to zero?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, instead of doing a salt bath on my GBR's, I decided to add 1tsp salt per 10G to the tank. Took my chances with the plecos and otos. But all is well, they are doing great. Just make sure it's all disolved before adding, as salt particles will burn the fish's skin and I think gills. I may add another dose of salt, maybe 1/2tsp per 10G. Trying to eliminate gill flukes if that is what is wrong with my GBR's. But yes, if you keep salt in moderation, it won't hurt plecos or otos. And add it slowly. I just added 1 tsp disolved at a time til all 7.5tsp were added. I didn't disolve all 7.5 tsp all at once.

As for removing salt, just let your PWC's do it. If you do 20%, 30%, or 50% weekly, you will have no problems. No need to get rid of it all at once unless you are moving out of QT. Then I would recommend doing a few PWC's before actually adding to the tank.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

I have heard that it is better to allow the salt to dissolve in the tank as it releases more slowly that way, allowing the fish to adjust. But this is information from a book, not from real life experience. I have done this in the past. Should I change my technique?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I haven't heard of that technique myself, and was always told that the salt, if placed on the fish, will burn. Maybe someone with more experience will help here.

 

[coldmachineUK]

I think LWB is right: you need to really dissolve the salt up in some tank water you have taken out. I reintroduce that same tank water very gradually (pouring in a tiny amount every hour, giving it time to circulate in the tank and 'diffuse'). I don't have a drip system in place, but that would be the most ideal solution (no pun intended )

 

[7Enigma]

I have heard that it is better to allow the salt to dissolve in the tank as it releases more slowly that way, allowing the fish to adjust. But this is information from a book, not from real life experience. I have done this in the past. Should I change my technique?

I think it all depends on the current in your tank. I would imagine for this method to work well you want a pretty high current that will evenly mix the salt as it dissolves in a small spot. Otherwise you have a salt "waterfall" (you can see it for sure), or an area in the tank that has a higher level of salt than another.

If this was my tank, I'd first dissolve the salt in some tank water, then over the course of 1/2 hour or so I would slowly add in the salt water (ie every 5-10minutes dump a little more in near the area of highest current (say outlet spout of a HOB, or the opposite side of where the fish is (if they like to sit right under the filter).

Frankly, salt is about the LEAST harmful thing you can add to your tank in terms of stressing/hurting the fish, and as long as you don't make a concentrated salt solution and try to pour it directly on them, they will be fine.

I'd still do the slow addition however, but that's just me.

Story that somewhat relates to this post:

My friend who has had a 125g tank for several years had slowly had is fish die of old age. he was left with a huge 12" oscar (probably bigger), and a giant 20" common pleco. Once another one of his longterm fish kicked the bucket he decided he wanted a change in his tank, and wanted to go with CA cichlids.

He found a home for his large oscar, but decided that the pleco should stay. Instead of doing a slow addition of salt to get the tank up to where his new fish require, he boiled a salt water solution on his stove (I assume to get it to dissolve in such a high concentration), and then dumped the whole amount in his 125g tank. Now I imagine this is quite a bit of salt in that boiling water....

As he is starting to pour the solution in, he doesn't see his pleco coming over to inspect the area. He pours the full salt solution in the tank and moves to look in the tank. What does he see? His giant pleco is now sitting directly under the salt waterfall that is sinking like a rock to the substrate. Now fortunately I'll assume that the salt solution is no longer at a high temperature since it is falling through tank water, but needless to say the pleco was in for a rude awakening.

My friend says before he could scare the pleco away, the bolus of salt water drops all around the pleco. The pleco STOPS breathing (no gill movement), sits there for a couple seconds, and then the breathing rapidly starts again.

I would say that was quite a shock for the little (big) guy, but fortunately his is now king of the tank with the other cichlids.

 

[sarah5775]

Actually, I once (not knowing any better) dropped the full maximum amount of salt crystals in my community fish tank and it didn't hurt any of the fish (not so I could see, anyways) I sure wouldnt' do it again, but none of the fish changed their behavior in the slightest, so I think most fish are pretty tolerant of salt.

 

[triazole]

jsoong, ottos being scaleless fish, i'd assume salt in the long term would be harmful to them.
i don't think they have been at PS for a long time (usually with their high turnover rates), so they might have escaped long term damage. i'd rather not treat them from ick if there are no visible signs or flashing. the added stress (combined with the move) could easily spell disaster.

you can drop the salt conc down to zero over a week (i'd do it in two days or so, but i'm rash).

MCD, salt should be dissolved in tank water first before being added to the tank.

 

[coldmachineUK]

On this same question: I have a F8 puffer fish in a tank of his own and am having some problems with hair algae. The tank is planted with a couple of hardy brackish tolerate species (since he is living at 1.005 S.G.).
However, I wondered if anyone knew whether an algae eater species would work to tackle this problem, and be an appropriate tank mate (i.e. salt tolerate, and able to hold its own against the F8 )?
I've done all I can with tank positioning etc.

I was originally thinking otos, but of course with the salt levels as they are it's not a good idea probably. Any other thoughts?

 

[jsoong]

jsoong, ottos being scaleless fish, i'd assume salt in the long term would be harmful to them.
i don't think they have been at PS for a long time (usually with their high turnover rates), so they might have escaped long term damage. i'd rather not treat them from ick if there are no visible signs or flashing. the added stress (combined with the move) could easily spell disaster.

you can drop the salt conc down to zero over a week (i'd do it in two days or so, but i'm rash).

MCD, salt should be dissolved in tank water first before being added to the tank.

There is no sign of anything at this point, so I guess I'll just wait out the 2 weeks & not start any treatment. I'll drop the salt level with my ususal QT pwc (25% every couple days).

On the question of adding salt "dry" or pre-dissolved. I always add predissolved (as the goldies will try to eat the salt grains -- pigs that they are -- and burn their mouths). I've seen the lfs adding the salt in solid form. They put the salt in a plastic container (with holes punched in it) & put that in the tank. Their reasoning is that the salt will dissolve out slowly over a couple days, raising the salt level slowly. The container serves to keep the fish from the salt (and the highly concentrated brine inside).

 

[triazole]

jsoong, that's not a bad idea on slow-dissolving salt. i also pre-dissolve salt to prevent any fish accidentally ingesting the granules, and to prevent localized steep conc gradients.