Overstocked?

[KyloRen]

How overstocked am I? I have a 55 gallon tank with marineland 350 HOB and a cascade 1000 canister filter
6 murray river rainbows
3 bosemani rainbow
1 turquoise
2 zebra danio
5 fire green tetra
1 clown pleco
1 tire track eel(removing tomorrow)
Would adding a school of 5 rummy nose tetras be too much?

 

[libertybelle]

I haven't kept rainbows but do your different species school together? I've always read that they are schoolers and that you should stock rainbows in minimum groups of 6 like other schooling fish?

Also just at first glance aren't some of these fish warmer water fish than others? I thought some of the rainbows were warmer water fish while the danios/tetras like things a bit cooler. Also the zebra's are schooling fish too.

I might consider filling out the schools you have before adding another type of school.

 

[KyloRen]

I haven't kept rainbows but do your different species school together? I've always read that they are schoolers and that you should stock rainbows in minimum groups of 6 like other schooling fish?

Also just at first glance aren't some of these fish warmer water fish than others? I thought some of the rainbows were warmer water fish while the danios/tetras like things a bit cooler. Also the zebra's are schooling fish too.

I might consider filling out the schools you have before adding another type of school.

I believe the rainbows I have currently are most comfortable at 70-77 - thats what liveaquaria says - I keep my waters at 75 degrees. As for the green fire tetra I read they are most comfortable between 72-80 degree so I think temperature isnt a big deal and well the Danios were actually just randomly tossed in my tank without my knowing. So I actually have no idea what to do with them lol. Nobody wants the zebra danios. To answer your first question, yes I do see them school together alot actually. The males sometimes chase each other around though, but I would like to think that they are just establishing a pecking order or something like that.

 

[jarrod0987]

IMO the real way to tell if your overstocked is if you have Ammonia or nitrite present in any level in a system that has been set up for over 3 months already and has cycled. Also..if you have nitrates that are skyrocketing you are overstocked. The 2nd scenario is the more likely one IMO.

 

[libertybelle]

Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels only help though if the fish are fully grown. If they're still growing you may just not be overstocked yet. (like with that eel which is hopefully going somewhere big!!) Also if there are any territorial/behavioral issues you might not see that in your chemical levels but could still indicate overstocking.

Like I mentioned before I would be sure you are happy with the school size of all the fish types you already have before I would add a new type. Most small schooling fish are much more fun to watch in larger groups too, while several small schools tend to do more hiding.
A mistake I recently had to correct in my own set up. If you don't want the danios you could ask at local fish stores if they'd take them or post on the forum to see if anyone local has a school that might like a couple new friends?

 

[jarrod0987]

Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels only help though if the fish are fully grown.

I respectfully have to disagree. As the fish grow they produce more ammonia and also the bacterial population slowly grows to handle it. If they do outgrow the tank bio filter then the tests will show ammonia or nitrite at any time now or in the future IF the tank is over stocked at that time. Same thing with Nitrate if water changes become to frequent over time. You can always use these tests to see if you are overstocked at the current time. Of course you need to test once or twice a month to see if you stayed that way as the fish grow up. Made up charts about what you can have in 1 tank at one time are just someones opinion. It is trying to prevent build up of Ammonia or Nitrate etc. So why not just test for it instead of guessing and speculating about what might happen in the future. In my experience it is amazing how much work those bacteria can do given proper aeration.

 

[libertybelle]

OK....but most people don't want to buy more fish than their tank/biofilter can handle as adults because they don't want to have to get a new tank or get rid of a fish if the fish grow too big one day. Not to mention if you wait until your biofilter literally can't handle anymore you have absolutely no safety margin for an accidental overfeeding day or something. It's riskier than most prefer. So most would rather use some way to predict what the tank can handle before you actually hit the cap of what the biofilter can handle.

No stocking advice is perfect and I certainly didn't imply I had the right answer. I just suggested they make sure the existing schools are happy before they consider adding a new school. And actually the only reason I mentioned that at all is because I recently had the same 'revelation' in my own tank, going from several small schools to a couple bigger ones produced much more fun behavior for me to watch because the fish felt secure enough to spend more time out of the plants@

I do agree with you though, jarrod0987, that sometimes people get a little overstrict with their 'rules' about what a tank can hold. They're intentions are good though!

 

[jarrod0987]

OK....but most people don't want to buy more fish than their tank/biofilter can handle as adults because they don't want to have to get a new tank or get rid of a fish if the fish grow too big one day. Not to mention if you wait until your biofilter literally can't handle anymore you have absolutely no safety margin for an accidental overfeeding day or something. It's riskier than most prefer. So most would rather use some way to predict what the tank can handle before you actually hit the cap of what the biofilter can handle.

No stocking advice is perfect and I certainly didn't imply I had the right answer. I just suggested they make sure the existing schools are happy before they consider adding a new school. And actually the only reason I mentioned that at all is because I recently had the same 'revelation' in my own tank, going from several small schools to a couple bigger ones produced much more fun behavior for me to watch because the fish felt secure enough to spend more time out of the plants@

I do agree with you though, jarrod0987, that sometimes people get a little overstrict with their 'rules' about what a tank can hold. They're intentions are good though!

I also agree with you. First timers may not know how many fish there tank can have and no stocking advice is perfect. In my experience as long as you have some kind of bio filter at all you will not likely have an issue with that unless putting an obscene amount of fish in. Just look at how many fish the pet store puts in a tank Nitrifying bacteria are amazing aren't they? However...you can rapidly run into nitrate issue and then an algae issue. This seems to be where overstocking rears it's ugly head in most cases. Would you agree?

 

[libertybelle]

I also agree with you. First timers may not know how many fish there tank can have and no stocking advice is perfect. In my experience as long as you have some kind of bio filter at all you will not likely have an issue with that unless putting an obscene amount of fish in. Just look at how many fish the pet store puts in a tank Nitrifying bacteria are amazing aren't they? However...you can rapidly run into nitrate issue and then an algae issue. This seems to be where overstocking rears it's ugly head in most cases. Would you agree?

Yup, pet stores often have pretty massive filtration systems. Their overstocking related problems are likely not ammonia / nitrite... but as you said, nitrate build up and sometimes improper cohabitation species.

And the behavior side of course. some species are more prone to aggression when they feel more cramped.

So really the best advice we can really give is to stock slowly, watch your levels and watch how your fish are acting.

I overfilter and have lots of plants so for me, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels are not as important (once established) I'm likely to be overstocked because of the fishies need for space before I notice problems with my chemical levels since the bacteria take care of the ammonia/nitrite and my plants eat up my nitrates. 26 fish in a 29 gallon and my nitrates are rarely over 5, never over 10.

 

[jarrod0987]

Yup, pet stores often have pretty massive filtration systems. Their overstocking related problems are likely not ammonia / nitrite... but as you said, nitrate build up and sometimes improper cohabitation species.

And the behavior side of course. some species are more prone to aggression when they feel more cramped.

So really the best advice we can really give is to stock slowly, watch your levels and watch how your fish are acting.

I overfilter and have lots of plants so for me, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels are not as important (once established) I'm likely to be overstocked because of the fishies need for space before I notice problems with my chemical levels since the bacteria take care of the ammonia/nitrite and my plants eat up my nitrates. 26 fish in a 29 gallon and my nitrates are rarely over 5, never over 10.

I was actually talking about old school fish stores that don't have central systems But meh I also love plants. Great way to get rid of nitrate is to feed the ammonia to a plant before it becomes nitrate

I also agree 1000% with the idea of stocking slowly. Either Fishless or Fish-In.

So nice to be able to have a debate without all the nastiness that sometimes happens.

To get back tot he OP's Q. I doubt the current bio load is a problem in a 55 gal. I bet it would be fine in a 20 gal with the right filter and water change schedule.