Pacus, Arowanas, and Other Tank Busters. A Discussion

[joannde]

Brian - just making sure I didn't offend anyone who is against egg culling on a moral level.

The problem is that tankbusters is the higher likelihood of risks:
a. These animals are more likely to be subjected to pollutants due to inadequate housing and inability to keep water quality up in a "too small" tank - just because they are "just fish" doesn't mean that they can be tortured (which is what it amounts to)
b. The new owner may end up seeing the animal as a chore, since they're enjoyment of a cramped fish will most likely be reduced (I can't imagine a bored animal not leading the keeper to also become bored watching it)
c. Worst case - "with nowhere else to go" (sounds like the Odd Couple !) unwarying purchases may feel it "best" and most "kind hearted" to release their impulse purchased pets into the wild .... and that generally leads to competition with native species and imbalance of the eco-system

And I'm STILL waiting for those "practical reasons" LOL

 

[BrianNY]

Joanne. Look at your words. "More likely to" and "may". The dog owner is more likely to kick her dog after her boss berated her. The cat owner may find out his new child is allergic and abandon the cat somewhere. I'm off the subject.

From a practical standpoint. These fish are here now. I know for a fact that they will receive better care from me than in that petshop. Therefore, if I want to buy that fish I'm doing it a huge favor.

Should a beta in a bowl receive equal treatment to a dog? How about those ants in the ant farm?

 

[joannde]

"more likely to" and "may" because some people (and I'll bet its the vast minority) have done their research first. Never say never, never say all - there are exceptions to every rule.

As for the fish that are alive today - I agree with you. But for future generations, I stick to my opinion - they should be restricted and be special order only.

ps - on the betta in the bowl - I'd have to say yes ! their needs are different from dogs but both should get an appropriate (for the species) level of care. Meaning a good home which meets or exceeds their needs (not just "sustains them"), loving parents, healthy food, and medical treatment. As for the ants in the ant farm - don't know - never had one, but they too should have reasonable care - why shouldn't they ?
(and yes, I've pithed frogs and disected live worms in school - can't say I liked the actual "act" but I learned alot and hopefully have put those poor animals sacrifice to good use in my animal husbandry and environmental care)

 

[Burks]

Add in Red Tailed Catfish to this list too. It saddens me to see how many are up for sale because they have "out grown the tank".

The local Pets Supplies Plus just recently started to carry these. They are only 4-5" but they are just babies. The local zoo has them and boy are they big!

Another privately owned shop in the area has a 2' Red Tail in a 4' tank. Kind of sad to see the poor thing. I wonder how he even turns around....also considering there are other large fish in the same tank. That is just as bad.

 

[hc8719]

somebody needs to restict the sale or import of pacus. not even the most of the real big fish addicts on this site have a 300gal tank. sure there might be one or 2, but lets face it, how many of us even have a 75gal or 125 gal.

goldfish should also be added to the header, as people buy them and a gallon bowl for their 7 year old. the fish need water changes like a discus, and not your everyday kid has time to do proper water changes, or the money to buy even a 55gal kit.

if a pond store or whatever wants to sell goldfish, thats fine, but they should not be bred in mass quanitites for average people

 

[happygirl65]

A PRACTICAL reason to have a tank buster?

I think the same reason that most of us keep fish....because you love that particular species....because it brings you peace and/or joy to care for it. That is the best reason of all IMO.

The rest of it, tank size and quality of life for the fish can be corrected so long as the desire exists. Hopefully, anyone who has one of these enormous creatures long enough for their size to become a problem has researched and is commited to that fish and will find it a good home one way or another.

IMO Lack of education here is the real problem. Some people impulsively buy the "pretty fish" having no idea what it is about to become.

If there were to be any kind of "better treatment of fish movement" it should be something in the order of specific information given to customers before they ever purchase these tank busters. They should be told by the sales person at the LFS EXACTLY how large that fish can get, how long that will take, and what is required to give them a good home. In addition to that there should be some sort of handout given along with the fish with basic requirements as well as general species information.

I think that would avert a LOT of would be disasters. Let's face it, people ARE implusive and often DON'T research before jumping into things, this would at least help them leap with their eyes wide open.

Seeing that it is not likely that the world will put anything like that into effect, how about pricing the fish according to eventual size! I would BET that before some implusive newbie threw down $20+ for ONE fish, they WOULD research to find out what is so "special" about THIS fish?! I know it stopped me from buying discus....and RIGHTLY so!

Another thing is that one person's idea of "fish suffering" is different than another. There are people who keep fish who feel that a fish is not suffering if they are properly fed and their water is clean, regardless of how much room they have to swim freely etc. We may not like that, but it's there.

The only way to change a person's mind is to educate them based on valuable first hand experience. That way they can feel that the advice is genuine and is not meant to make them feel uneducated. (I have encountered MUCH resistance to aquarium education in my family if you cant tell...lol.)

THat is why this and other forums are so very important. You may not change the entire world, but I know that I FOUND this site because I wanted to start up my aquarium again and wanted to find out why my fish kept dying in previous years. Finding out that death is not just something that "fish do" and that they generally DO have life spans in excess of a year was eye opening to me and it lead me to further and further research. Most of my family thinks I am nuts with all the time I spend on this and I have endured much critisizm and ridicule as a result of my new found aquarium beliefs, but they are MY convictions now...my eyes have been opened and I will never go back to being one of "those people" again.

 

[Mosaic]

*applause!* Well done!

 

[ecoman]

I was just thinking about this. Since most people love to buy these fish for color, personality and price and they are usually captive bred why not breed the size out of them?

I mean technically speaking, couldn't one breed them into dwarf oscars, pacus and arowanas so the tank busting would be eliminated?

If a beginner was standing in front of two tanks (1 with 10 2 inch oscars and 1 with 10 2in dwarf oscars, wouldn't he go for the dwarfs if he only had a 20 gallon setup?) Just a thought

 

[BrianNY]

The reason this is such an interesting subject is because it goes to the core of how one respects any animals well being. For what purpose do we keep fish in our homes? Is it out of respect for the fish? I don't think anyone can say that.

The aquarium fish in our society is considered almost disposable. Don't hold your breath waiting for restrictions on the sale of tank busters. The best one can hope for is that the places that sell fish as ornaments (that's what they are), explain the needs of each species for sale.

 

[hc8719]

I was just thinking about this. Since most people love to buy these fish for color, personality and price and they are usually captive bred why not breed the size out of them?

I mean technically speaking, couldn't one breed them into dwarf oscars, pacus and arowanas so the tank busting would be eliminated?

the only way this would happen is by genetic engineering. they have done this on fish farms with salmon. these salmon are engineered to get abnormally big, and carry modified genes. we dont know the long term side effects, because they are eatten after so long.

but remember these "farms" are really a giant mesh cage in open water, and on occassion a salmon escapes.

if you know anything about salmon breeding. females only mate with the biggest male they can find (which are the modified salmon) thus they predict we wont have any orginal salmon left in the next 50 years

did you know they no longer have the orginal tomatoes? they modified so many, which then insects spread their pollen around to orginal tomatoes, thus no more orginal tomatoes are left

BT corn is corn modified to be poisonous to insects, but in turn is poisonous to humans. BT corn fed to animals, which in turn are fed to us, not only does this sound unsafe, but whats to stop bugs from spreading BT pollen to natural corn.

ok, now after reading that, some idiot releases a modified dwarf oscar or arrowana into the wild, where it breeds with normal fish. if we get midget arrowanas, fish that the arrowana normally eat, dont have a natural predator... and thus starts the destruction of all life

 

[rhetor]

so you're telling me i can have a miniature mountain lion as a pet?