pH altered by crushed coral

[Fishyfanatic]

About a month and a half ago I put in about a cup and a half of crushed coral into our canister filtration unit to naturally raise the pH of the tank into the upper 7's, lower 8's. Before the crushed coral was added our pH was at a steady 7.0, now it's at a steady 7.4. How long does it take before the pH will be in the upper 7's? We added it into the 55 gal to try to increase the pH for our African's.

I went to the lfs and asked their opinion but of course the guy hands me a bottle of chemicals and says to add the chemical. I told him I was looking for a more natural way to increase the pH and he didn't have any other suggestions except for the chemicals. What do you guys think? Should we add more crushed coral or is the rise going at the right rate?

 

[ChileRelleno]

My advice is to add more CC directly into your substrate or a HOB filter, aprox a cup at a time (maybe every two weeks) until you achieve your desired PH readings. I know some folks use CC as their only substrate when keeping Africans.

We had major bad problems with extremely low PH due to our KH being only 1DKH/17.9ppm, due to the KH being so low it had "NO" buffering capability (ability to hold a steady PH). We added CC in satchets to our filters and our PH came up from -5.ppm to aprox 6.-6.5ppm, we add a little Proper PH 7.0 (which also has buffering agents) to our water at changes and our tanks run a rock steady 7.0 PH, with no up's and downs now.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

We have a sand substrate and I have heard that if you put crushed coral as a substrate that you would need an UGF for it to work well and since we have sand, we can't use an ugf. Originally we used sand because we had eels with the Africans. Now that we have taken the eels out of the tank and given them their own home, it would be too much of a pain in the butt to take out the sand and replace it with cc. We bought sand from the lfs because we loved the look of the white and black sand mixture so it was quite costly and it would be a waste to just throw it away. All of our tanks now are sand (except for my little one).

We don't have a hob, we have a canister (Cascade 1000) and put it directly into the unit for the best circulation.

I was just wondering if we should add more or if the pH change was on the proper time line.

 

[ChileRelleno]

It has been my experience that a measured amount of CC will only raise the PH or buffering capability a certain amount and after that remain level. To increase the desired effect you will need to increase the amount of CC. Remember, you'll need to keep testing your GH/KH at regular (bi-weekly) intervals to ascertain the effects.

I'd say buy a inexspensive HOB that gives you the option of being able to add whatever media you wish in satchets (bags)(I really like the Hagen Aqua Clear HOB's) and use it primarily with a sponge and CC.

Just my experience's/$0.02...

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Are you saying to stop using the Canister and to buy a hob? I'm putting cc into the canister filtration unit. It has compartments that you can fill with whatever you want, so we put a bag of cc into the unit. Shouldn't we just add another bag of cc into the canister?

 

[ChileRelleno]

It's all right to use your canister, it's just that the more CC you put in your canister you may take away from your bio-capability. My suggestion to purchase a HOB would allow you to use your canister for its primary function as a mechanical and biological filter. The HOB would be used just for CC to maintain your pH and buffering.
If you have the room in your canister to add another bag of CC without, in your opinion, degrading your bio-capability then by all means do so.
Two filters are better than one IMO, and you can use the HOB for whatever media pleases you. (e.g. CC, additional chemical filtration, etc)

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The reason why we bought the canister is because you can't hear it. The hob's we can always hear. I live in a loft apt and I can hear all of the fish tanks at night in bed. We have plenty of room in the Cascade to add more crushed coral. There is a bag of filter media, a bag of crushed coral, and room for another bag or two of something else. On top of that is filter floss and sponges. We have a spare Penguine 330 but don't really want to use that unless the canister fails because of the noise that it makes. We just did another water change tonight and added another bag of the cc. I hope this helps the pH.

 

[ChileRelleno]

Quiet is good ... We actually like the sound of the water flow into our tanks, my wife was always wanting to buy the little indoor waterfalls.

 

[severum mama]

Just a thought... I know you are trying to raise your pH for your Africans but I see that you also keep your BPs in the same tank. IMO you will have to make some compromises on your pH, as your BPs are South Americans and do not like a pH as high as Africans do, this is one of the reasons that people often suggest keeping Africans in separate tanks from Central or South Americans. If I were you I wouldn't raise it much more. All my cichlids are Central or South Americans and my pH is 7.0 (lucky me), they seem to love my water.
BTW if you are thinking about adding a HOB I have found that Aquaclears are much quieter than Penguins or Emperors.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Thanks Severum. We're actually going to be taking the parrots out of the 55 and putting them in the new 55 gal (I think the kitchen table and chairs are going into storage). So far they haven't had any problems with the pH at 7.4, they actually seem quite happy. But we are definately going to be moving the bp's to a dif tank.

 

[frog girl]

I put limestone rocks in my tank & eventually had to get rid of them because they kept my pH at about 8 all the time.

The other thing that might help is putting a temporary DIY CO2 rig in there. The CO2 will initially decrease your pH because it forms carbonic acid but the acid will dissolve the calcium carbonate from your coral (for it to work the fastest I would put the coral near the CO2 reservoir). When you take the CO2 rig out all the extra CO2 will come out of the water and you will get a higher pH. This would just speed up the process a bit. If you don't have live plants or are worried about stressing out your fish you could easily do the DIY CO2 with coral in a bucket & it would give you a solution with high dissolved calcium carbonate that you could add at water change time.

Also increasing the surface area of the coral would help if it is in big chunks (i.e. break it up in a pillowcase with a hammer).

 

[Fishyfanatic]

It's already crushed coral, no need to break it up. I have a bag in the filtration unit, not on the surface of the tank. I'm going to hold off at upping the pH for a few weeks until I move the parrots.

So a piece of limestone will increase my pH enough to bring it to 7.8 or 8.0?

 

[frog girl]

Well I had a bunch of limestone rocks - like maybe 30 pnds (or more) of them and after a while I just couldn't get my pH down at all. The KH was up at like 22 which is ridiculous but my pH was at 8.0. I think the process takes a while unless you have the CO2 rig running. Without it I think I achieved 8.0 in 6 months or so and that was with starting with almost pure RO water over a clay substrate.

Limestone is readily available at a lot of nurseries for much cheaper than you will get it at a fish store. I made a sort of tower of stacked limestone in the corner of my aquarium which the fish loved to hid in & chase through. It was like making caves.

For found rocks you can test if they are limestone by washing them really well & partially submerging them in vinegar. If they bubble then they are limestone. Bubbles will take a while to form sometimes depending on the density of your limestone so give it a good 8 hrs.

I think your area was pretty heavily glaciated depending on where in Illinois you live so limestone might be hard to find out in nature.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

We have a LOT of limestone around here. Actually, my grandfather used to have a rock quary in his woods full of limestone. It's still there, it's just not a quary anymore. I've just always been scared to put anything into the tank that could harm the fish because I'm not sure what would harm them.

 

[frog girl]

As long as you boil the rock first you will be sure that limestone isn't going to bring anything extra (algae or bacteria) into the tank.

I don't usually boil my rocks just wash them well under hot tap water but if you want to be sure boiling water should do it.

I'm not sure why the african rift lakes have such high KH but I would guess there is some limestone involved.

I would say go for it. It won't happen really fast but that should be better for the fish (less stress).

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I'm trying to find a way to raise the pH so I don't have to worry about it anymore. The crushed coral only raised it to 7.4 and I'd like to put something into the tank that will make it permanetly go up to 8.0. I'd rather it go slowly (limestone) because I need time to get my parrots out of the tank and into their new home. I am just dredding the thought of moving. My lease comes up in July and we are moving to a bigger place but just the thought of moving 4 tanks then setting up a 5th when we get their AUGH!

Quick question on the topic of moving. I know that you're not supposed to move tanks when they have water in them. When we move we were going to take out the water, fill up probably 6 buckets of water (5 gal each) and put the fish in individual bags like when you buy them from the lfs. My question is, can I just leave the sand in the tank or do I need to remove that also?

 

[frog girl]

I have moved terrariums for snakes without removing the sand substrate & it makes them really heavy. I also don't know how the extra pressure would affect tank integrity. You wouldn't have to get it all out just most of it. I think one of those vacuum hoses that you hook up to a faucet would take it out pretty easily. Just be sure you have a bucket under the outflow so you don't get sand down your sink. Or better yet hook it to an outside faucet through a window. Thats how I do mine (even for cleanings).