pH, Ammonia, and Cycling Issues

[Rupret]

A few weeks ago, my tank had a major crash. All the bio-filter completely failed and I lost most of my fish in one day. I have been monitoring the chemistry and doing frequent water changes, although the last week I have not due to being out town for work.

Ammonia has remained 0.25 or 0.50 and no nitrites for the few weeks. Nitrates were initially 0.00, but now have increased.

Chemistry as of today:

pH: 6.6
NH3: 0.50
NO2: 0.00
NO3: 10
PO4: 2.0

Do any of you have any advice? I was "scolded" here for utilizing bio-filter boost, but after the few weeks, I am considering it again - ammonia still present. Any thoughts?

The tank is a freshwater, 125 gallon, and heavily planted. No CO2 injection or other plant nutrients currently. I add CaCO3 every water change to control the pH; my part of the country requires a buffer to control the pH.

So, any thoughts???

Thanks.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

Are there currently any fish in the tank? If so, please list them so we can get an idea of the bio-load.

 

[Rupret]

I am really low on fish - don't want to add until the chemistry is settled.

I have two small-medium angels, one or two black skirt tetras, and one pleco that survived. These are the only fish that I know of that are still present.

Thanks for any input.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

I wouldn't suggest using a "bacteria in a bottle". From what I have seen that is what most of them do...munch all the toxins for the time you are using it and then die off leaving you with big problems. The best advice I could give would be to treat this as a "fish-in cycle". Monitor the toxins daily and do water changes as needed. You can read up on "fish-in cycle" in the stickies of the Getting Started forum.

 

[Rupret]

Thanks.

As of today, my ammonia was 0.0, pH dropped to 6.0. Added some CaCO3. My LFS (a good and qualified LFS) tested the water as well, pH of 6.6, only trace ammonia. They also mentioned that our water is so soft, that it is difficult for any buffer to stabilize the pH. I discussed the chemistry crash with them; they were unsure, but did ask about a power outage, which can cause a crash.

I picked up some more fish to start the restocking and, hopefully, full cycling. We will see how it goes.

Thanks again.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

Not sure if this info is in your other thread but... Do you know what the KH and GH values are for your source water?

I use my well water in my aquariums. Last time I tested it was GH~250 and KH~0 and pH~6.4. If I used this water straight up in my CO2 injected tanks my pH would end up in the low 5s or high 4s, not good for the ol' bio-filter. I use sodium bicarbonate (cheap ol' baking soda) to raise the KH to ~3 and my pH stays stable at ~6.4 (CO2 injected) and ~7.4 (not CO2 injected).
It takes 1/4 tsp of baking soda to raise the KH of five gallons of water from zero to three.
Just to note: I have seen some KH buffering stuff a various stores. It's expensive considering that it is just sodium bicarbonate (or potassium bicarbonate) so don't bother with it, just get a box of baking soda instead.
As for buffering GH... SeaChem Replenish is basically a GH buffer and might be a better option than what you are using. Might be worth some research.

 

[Rupret]

The GH and KH of the tap water here are both 0 to 1.

I am still having some hard times with the pH, which until the last few weeks has been fine. I'll have to pick up some baking soda and will try that this week; I use to use it until I initiated the plants, then changed to CaCO3. Still using the CaCO3 to buffer the pH up - and, trying to do it slowly.

I still have so GH boost, from aquariumfertilizer.com. What are your thoughts on GH boost, if I still have some?

Thanks!

Robert.

 

[blert]

Wow, that is some soft water. I would for sure be using that GH Boost, and baking soda for the KH. Many may disagree but I would still do it.
I have never needed to raise the GH of my water so I have not used GH Boost before. I checked out what it's made of and compared to Replenish...
-GH Boost:
Potassium Sulfate
Calcium Sulfate
Magnesium Sulfate
-Replenish:
Calcium Chloride
Magnesium Chloride
Sodium Chloride
Potassium Chloride
...seems to be similar stuff, minus the Sodium Chloride, but the GH Boost is cheaper.

Tinkering with your water chemistry can be problematic. Make sure that if you decide to try it then do it slowly. Start with small water changes and gradually increase the water change amount.

 

[Rupret]

Have added some GH Boost this past week. The pH seems to have stabilized, but still have ammonia. Completing a 50% water change today. May add some GH Boost and a small amount of CACO3, when complete. Last weekend, i did purchase some more fish, for the fish in tank cycling - bought 2 small angels (total of 4 small angels), 6 Colombian tetras, one small pleco, and still have an albino pleco and 1or 2 black skirt tetras (I think I lost one). The tank is a heavily planted 125, so still plenty of room for fish.

Chemistry as of today:

pH: 7.2
NH3: 1.0
NO2: 0.0
NO3: 5.0
PO4: 1.0

I have not added any bio-filter boost.

Any thoughts? It has been weeks that I've been trying to get the tank re-cycled, following a major crash. Should I be looking a few more fish? Is Stability, a bio-filter boost, worth a shot at this point? FYI, I do not use bio-filter boost regularly, but have had good luck with Stability in the past when the filter seems low.

Thanks.

Rupret.

 

[Rupret]

After the water change and some GH Boost and CaCO3, the pH is 7.4. The ammonia is 0.5, as expected from a 50% water change. Any thoughts on getting the tank to re-cycle? The ammonia has been here for weeks now, since the major crash.

The GH Boost has really helped with the pH. Now, just the ammonia.

Thanks.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

I would not get any more fish. Though the tank is large you just dropped some heavy waste producers into it. Keep an eye on it and do PWCs as needed, hopefully you will see some progress soon. You can add the bottled bacteria if you like. Whether it will actually be helpful is a matter I'm not going to get into. Some folks swear by it, most seem to regard it as a load of BS. Your call.

 

[Rupret]

Blert:

Thanks. I've cycled tanks before, without bottle bacteria, and have been successful. I think it has been over a month since the major tank crash and it hasn't yet. I just cannot figure out why it is not getting cycled. I'll give it a few more days and then may add the Stability.

I do respect your opinion; you seem very knowledgeable. Although it has been a while, I don't think it took new tanks this long to cycle. I know when I set up my 125, I did help it with some nasty water and waste from my previous 75 gallon. It just seems as though this is taking a while.

I thought about some additional fish, but I do agree to wait until this thing cycles.

Thanks for all your input. If you have any further, please let me know.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

If you have a LFS that you trust, ask them for some media from their filter system. If they give you some keep it wet, take it home and cram it into your filter. Even a small chunk of driftwood, that has been soaking in their tank for a while, will carry some additional beneficial bacteria that will help your tank.

It can possibly take two months to get through your "cycle". If the tank is heavily planted then that is a plus as the plants will be taking up ammonia and such, given other things like light, CO2 and other ferts.

 

[Rupret]

I'll keep at it. I do trust the LFS, but always hesitate to use water or such from another source.

I am hoping now that my pH seems to be getting stable, it will help encourage the bio-filter. It has been dropping to 6.0 briefly, but the GH Boost has really seemed to do the trick on pH stability.

I'll give it some more time before trying any bio-boost. I've done ok with it before, but do prefer to do it naturally. I guess I've gotten a little impatient. The pH stability will help and that has been in only the last week.

When the time comes for new fish, do you see any issues with giving some extra plant growth (my amazon sword has bred majorly) to the LFS in exchange for fish? I haven't wanted to until my tank is stabilized and healthy.

Thanks.

Rupret.

 

[blert]

When your pH gets into the mid sixes the biological conversion of the toxins in your tank slows down. At six and under it pretty much stops. If you can keep the pH stable, somewhere between the mid sixes and sevens, things should start to look up rather quickly.

As for trading plants for fish... I do this all the time. I have a tank dedicated to growing out plants that I trade to three different LFSs for store credit. All three places pay me the same prices that they would get from their vendors, most times a bit more because all my stuff is rooted. I don't think I have actually paid for aquarium supplies in months. It won't hurt your tank a bit to trade off your excess foliage, just wait until things stabilize with your tank before you go removing large batches of plants to trade.