pH Confusion

[JoeyGGGG]

Okay so I have the API liquid test kit for freshwater and I just tested my tank water and my reading came out to be around 8.8 which I thought was weird so I tested my tap water and it is 8.2 which my test booklet says is ideal for a chicilid fish environment. I have angelfish which I think are chicilid? But I was wondering how my pH rises when the tap water is in the tank? I use top fin's brand to dechlornize it idk if that has any affect on it either. Help would great!

 

[roydooms]

What do you have in the tank for decorations? Some rocks will have an effect on your pH.

 

[allaboutfish]

are you cycling? ph changes alot during cycling.

 

[JoeyGGGG]

Tank has been set up for about 3 months and all my parameters are what they should be. But for rocks I have a few that I picked up from my front yard rock scape. I have boiled them twice though.

 

[mudraker]

Did you test those rocks with vinegar before you put them in the tank?

Before adding rocks from your yard, or anywhere else for that matter, it is important to test them by dropping some vinegar on them. If the rock bubbles anywhere, it means it is not inert and probably not safe for your tank. No bubbles means its probably safe.

Aragonite substrate will raise ph, as will coral.

Have you tested your tap water for ph after letting it sit for 24 hours?

Some tap waters will rise after sitting. You might want to look at that also.

 

[JoeyGGGG]

Alright I'll test those rocks right away and I'll give an update of the tap water soon thanks

 

[JoeyGGGG]

Alright well I am sorry I forgot that I was testing a tank that is currently cycling.... Woops just to make sure all was well though I tested the pH in my DT and it came out to be about 7.4 . I have not tested my rocks yet but my Tap is sitting in a bucket and I should be able to get my readings tomorrow!

 

[Flossie]

Alright well I am sorry I forgot that I was testing a tank that is currently cycling.... Woops just to make sure all was well though I tested the pH in my DT and it came out to be about 7.4 . I have not tested my rocks yet but my Tap is sitting in a bucket and I should be able to get my readings tomorrow!

I think I did the same thing. I didn't realize PH changes with cycling. All this time I thought my oh was 8.2 and I finally retested my tank and it's like 7.4 but I think it's still 8.2 out of the tap ... Craziness

 

[WendiDell]

One thing you should know, Angels are in the Cichlid family, but there are so many types of Cichlids it's mind boggling.
Some Cichlids like those from the Malawi Lake in Africa prefer the higher more Alkaline pH of 7.8-9.0. But Angelfish are a South American Cichlid and they need a lower Acidic pH of 5.5-7.0.
I have a tank of Mbuna Cichlids that need the higher pH, so I used a crushed Caribbean shell type gravel that naturally keeps the pH at 8.2.
I also have an Angelfish tank. My tap water pH is 7.2 which is close enough to the 5.5-7.0 they need. So I don't need to do anything to their water except PWC & dechlorinate.
The least amount of stuff you need to do to your water the better it is for your fish. No matter what kind of fish they are.

 

[AquaOne]

+1 WendiDell.
Generally you should try to avoid buffer additives because every pwc you would have to adjust ph levels and the only sufferers when it's a bit out are the fish. If you are doing a species specific setup (like Malawi cichlids), then to get the best for them you would need to be a bit more fussy. The better method if you had to buffer the local tap is less quantity but more frequent pwc, so the fresh water going in won't have such an impact on tank ph if it's slightly off.

 

[WendiDell]

+1 WendiDell.
Generally you should try to avoid buffer additives because every pwc you would have to adjust ph levels and the only sufferers when it's a bit out are the fish. If you are doing a species specific setup (like Malawi cichlids), then to get the best for them you would need to be a bit more fussy. The better method if you had to buffer the local tap is less quantity but more frequent pwc, so the fresh water going in won't have such an impact on tank ph if it's slightly off.

I've done up to a 50% PWC and the pH went from 8.2 to 8.0 but it was back up to 8.2 that evening, 7-8 hrs later. Just from the shell substrate. It is so much easier and more stable than adding Alkaline buffer every time

 

[AquaOne]

That's what we want, a tried & tested formula for ph management
I still prefer to have it 'as-it-comes' from tap, but must admit WendiDell seems to have hit on something here. I wonder if it could cope with a neutral ph7 and still take that to 8.2 ? Don't try it WendiDell, I'm sure your setup's just fine without experimental intrusion.

 

[WendiDell]

That's what we want, a tried & tested formula for ph management
I still prefer to have it 'as-it-comes' from tap, but must admit WendiDell seems to have hit on something here. I wonder if it could cope with a neutral ph7 and still take that to 8.2 ? Don't try it WendiDell, I'm sure your setup's just fine without experimental intrusion.

Not to worry, I don't experiment with my fish. If I had an empty tank I'd try it. but my 4 tanks are in use.
My tap pH is only 7.2 so I don't think it would be a problem if the water was a whopping .2 less.
When you first put the Caribbean shell/coral substrate in your tank it takes time for it to permanently raise the pH. So if you already have fish in your tank like I did, you'll need to still use the buffers for about two weeks. After that the shells have soaked long enough to maintain a stable pH.
African Cichlids are hardy and can get used to the tap pH, but it isn't the best way to go for the optimal health and quality/quantity of life for your fish.

 

[AquaOne]

Ah, I thought you were moving 8.0 to 8.2, so if you can achieve 7.2 to 8.2 that's really something. Do you buffer to 8.0 before fresh goes into tank ?

 

[JoeyGGGG]

Okay so I waited 24 hours or so to test some tap water that I had set out the day before and it went down to 7.6 so that's the reason it's going down I guess.

Also so your saying I should not really artificially adjust for example I have top fin ph adjuster which says It automatically sets the pH to 7? If not does anyone know of anything that will naturally lower and keep a steady pH of about 7? Thanks for the helpful comments!

 

[WendiDell]

Ah, I thought you were moving 8.0 to 8.2, so if you can achieve 7.2 to 8.2 that's really something. Do you buffer to 8.0 before fresh goes into tank ?

Nope, I just put Prime in my tank, set the temp on my tap water and filler up. As long as I don't do more than a 50% PWC change the pH doesn't drop more than 0.2-0.4 and it comes right back up within 6-8 hrs.. I only have to do a 20% PWC on my tanks once a week, so the pH in the tank never drops below 8.0.
But, when I first changed to the crushed shell/coral substrate, I did need to use Seachems Alkaline Buffer until the shells/corals could do what ever it is that it does to raise the pH. Which was 3-4 PWC I think. It was a while ago so I don't remember the exact amount of time it took.
Anyway it takes about 1lb of Carabbean/Cichlid gravel per gallon of water to get the desired results.

 

[AquaOne]

Well this is stunning, a new thread beckons !
I've never come across anything for aquarium that is so good (nearly better than sliced bread !!). I reckon you could market the gravel here in UK, but I suppose the sticking point would be the postage costs. If there isn't a section already, I think the mod's need to introduce a 'How about that' forum, you could head it up