PH keeps rising

[jameslouder]

The pH in my ten-gallon community tank keeps rising and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Left alone the tank becomes very akaline in a very short time. I can gradually lower the pH to the neutral range, but within 24 hours it will be back up around 8.0 and in three days the solution in my test tube will be bright blue.

If I just let the pH go, the fish (some hardy tetras, a giant danio, and a cory) don't seem to mind, but this can't be good. Above all, it's extremely puzzling. Also, I have never been able to get plants to live long in this tank, which I suppose is due to the alkaline conditions.

The aquarium has an Aqua-Clear filter and as nearly as I can tell the biological process inthe filter are working normally (earthy smell when I clean out the foam blockl, nitrite level close to 0). The bottom is normal aquarium substrate:medium fine chips over larger pebbles. I have a few natural rocks as decorations, that's it.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks,

James

 

[Frank_the_Tank]

It could be one of the rocks. That's about all I can think of. Do you know what type of rocks they were or did you test them with vinegar before you placed them in the tank to see their effect on pH?

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi jameslouder and welcome to Aquarium Advice!

Have you read the pH article in the articles section? http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=40

Are you using chemicals to lower your pH, like pH Down? As you are finding out, they often don't work. Your water is probably hard enough that the pH just rebounds and rises after a day or two.

What is the pH of your source water? My tap water is 8 or 8.2 out of the tap. I mix tap and RO water to lower my pH, and I'm about to use a piece of driftwood in one of my tanks. (I'll have to do some pH tests to figure out if I need to use both RO water AND driftwood -- I'm not sure yet.)

Like Frank said, what about your rocks? I got some rocks that I tested by putting them in a glass of water (they are very small!) and tested the pH of the water before and after the rock was sitting in there for a few days.

 

[jameslouder]

rocks and water

The water is de-mineralised water which I buy in big jugs at the drugstore, so I don't think that's it. There is one rock which could be the culprit, now that you mention it--I think it's limestone. I'll pull it and see what happens. The others are granite and basalt, not likely to be leaching anything, certainly not that fast.

The chemical I'm using is called pH adjust, a Hagen product. It doesn't say on the bottle just what it is, chemically.

Thanks for the suggestions,

James

 

[Menagerie]

[center:6a344cf234] Welcome to AA, jameslouder!! [/center:6a344cf234]

de-mineralised water

hmmm, the plants are probably not surviving due to lack of nutrients in the water. You need to be adding back minerals to the water.

Why are you not using tap water?

The chemical I'm using is called pH adjust, a Hagen product. It doesn't say on the bottle just what it is, chemically.

Stop using this product. A steady pH is better than a swinging pH.

What are the water parameters exactly? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

 

[jameslouder]

[center:5fdb5e26c0] Welcome to AA, jameslouder!! [/center:5fdb5e26c0]

de-mineralised water

hmmm, the plants are probably not surviving due to lack of nutrients in the water. You need to be adding back minerals to the water.

Why are you not using tap water?

The chemical I'm using is called pH adjust, a Hagen product. It doesn't say on the bottle just what it is, chemically.

Stop using this product. A steady pH is better than a swinging pH.

What are the water parameters exactly? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

Why are you not using tap water?

Because the local (Montreal, QC) tap water is lousy--very hard and God knows what else. Just looking at what it leaves in a Britta filtre is enough to disuade you from using it as the medium for any living thing, unless maybe it were carp. Besides, the demineralised water is cheap, easy to get, and at least I know my base line.

Not, let's admit, that it's doing me much good, eh? It's all very perplexing. I'm going to remove this chunk of limestone just on principle, but I can't see any signs that it's dissolving. What about the substrate? Does that stuff sometimes contain broken up shells and other calciferous material that could be leaching carbonate into the water? I guess I could try Frank's trick, throw a handful of the stuff into a glass of neutral water and check the pH again in a few days' time.

Nitrite levels are OK: as close to zero as makes no diffierence. I don't know about ammonia and nitrate. I'll have to get the required test kits. Ammonia couldn't be too high, though or the fish would be dead, right?

James

What do you suggest I add by way of plant nutrients? I was mulling over the notion of pulling up the bottom and laying down a thin stratum of potting soil. Any thoughts?

 

[Menagerie]

Ammonia couldn't be too high, though or the fish would be dead, right?

Fish are amazing.

I suggest you use half tap water and half of the other stuff. This will bring up the buffering capacity of the water and add back in some nutrients.

What do you suggest I add by way of plant nutrients? I was mulling over the notion of pulling up the bottom and laying down a thin stratum of potting soil. Any thoughts?

There is better substrate than potting soil Post over in the Planted tanks section. I'm just getting started with plants and don't want to give poor advice.

 

[jameslouder]

Bingo!!!

I found the source of my pH problem and it turned out to be the substrate. I put a handful of the stuff into a glass of dimineralised water (ozone treated and filtered, equivalent to distilled). I immediately drew off a test-tube's worth, put in the drops, and saw the water turn turquoise. I came back the next day and took another sample, which turned deep blue--pH of 9 or more.

As a further test, I put couple of tablespoons of leftover dry substrate into another glass, rinsed the dust out of it and poured in about 150ml of white vinegar. Within a couple of minutes you would have said it was Alka-Seltzer!

Q.E.D. , by George!

The substrate in question is another Hagen product, "Geosystem" fine natural gravel. To be fair there is a small-print warning on the bag saying the product "may contain minerals and trace elements that buffer pH." Yep, I guess you could say that... This gravel is a mix of of fine, thin chips, averaging around 3mm broad. It contains a fair bit of dark stone that looks like basalt, there are some quartz chips, and others that look like flint--all nice igneous rocks, so far, so good. But there is also a small quantity of soft, white, chalky matter that breaks up under pressure from a fingernail and this is surely the source of the trouble.

The long and short of it is, I would not recommend this product unless for some reason you want really basic water, because that's what you're going to get. Meanwhile, my tank is getting a new bottom this weekend, good old white quartz, if only I can find it--not to be taken for granted, considering the near monopoly that distributor has in the retail aquarium trade. Maybe I should try the garden shop at Canadian Tire!

Many thanks once more to everyone who weighed in with suggestions to help me solve this problem. This is a great forum and I'll look forward to future exchanges.

James

 

[Menagerie]

As a further test, I put couple of tablespoons of leftover dry substrate into another glass, rinsed the dust out of it and poured in about 150ml of white vinegar. Within a couple of minutes you would have said it was Alka-Seltzer!

Maybe I should try the garden shop at Canadian Tire!

Definitely. Rinse really well a few times.

 

[bescher]

Ph levels rise and stay at 8.7

I am having the same issue my tap water is high in PH, approx 8. 2 out of the tap, but it has been sitting at 8.7 and no matter what I do it will go back to 8.7 even if I run CO2 ( tank and regulated) or put in distilled water. I have done everything I can think of except for taking out my so called lava rock that I bought at my LFS I have a big one ( 3 x 4 in) and then approx 15 or so of 1 X 1 in pebbles of lava rock. I Aldo have a floating bed filter that's held down by a bathroom wall tile and pic pipe but since I made it following a DIY video from Joey at DIY I don't think that's the issue. Plants are doing great growing like crazy. I have Eco complete substrate ( approx 2 1/2 in worth) please look at my profile at what else I have. I am going to remove the rocks and see what happens

 

[gilpi]

I suggest you stop using the ph adjuster stuff, you'll save money and it's better for your fish.
My tap water runs anything from 7.4 to 8.0 and I've kept everything from Africans to Angels and even Discus for years.
The constant rise and drop in ph is not good for your fish health.
You say the tap water is hard? Got readings? Ph?
I also think you should use some tap water and half the other.

Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[bescher]

Thanks but I have only used a PH adjuster maybe. Four times in the last year and a half. I been afraid to use it ( Seachem's Safe and or acid buffer) and that's it. The Co2 is timed and adjuster or regulated by the apex controller ( off at night) for my plants although it is suggested that CO2 will make PH go down but that's not its intended purpose and right now it's been off for the past week because of the pump making too much noise

 

[bescher]

Aquarium plants

I have been using tap water all the time until I tested it Friday and it was at 8.4 so I went and bought 7 gallons of distilled water and used that in the 40 gal tank. The ph ignored the fresh water, went down to 8.4 and then right back up to 8.7

 

[ImACoolguy]

I have been using tap water all the time until I tested it Friday and it was at 8.4 so I went and bought 7 gallons of distilled water and used that in the 40 gal tank. The ph ignored the fresh water, went down to 8.4 and then right back up to 8.7

Use a natural buffer such as a bag of peat moss in your filter or Indian Almond leaves to keep it buffered lower. Chemicals and stuff it will naturally return to previous once it has wore off.


Caleb

 

[bescher]

I have 2 bags of peat moss ( roughly the size of a golf ball - from great wave engineering) and three almond leaves - 5 x 8 inches) in the tank already and no change at all. It's like it's laughing at me (the tank)
So I am going to remove all rocks in the tank and see what happens

 

[brennae]

When in doubt remove all the rocks. If you pour vinegar on the rocks and it bubbles then you for sure know that they are the problem.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Gillie]

The peat and leaves will do nothing but stain water if the dissolved mineral content is high. Diluting the tap water is the best way to go and then if you want soften further, use peat and IAL.