PH Plummeting w/ New Driftwood?!

[librarygirl]

Hi everyone,

I posted yesterday about a new piece of DW I found at my LFS. I've been soaking it in an 18 gal rubbermaid tub with hot water for a few days.

For kicks yesterday I tested the water that the DW is soaking in after 24 hours and my PH plummeted to 6. My tap PH is around 8.4 until it gasses out after a few hours to 7.4-7.6 which is what my tank's PH is (due to the dramatic difference in PH I let my tap water gas out with an air stone in buckets for a couple of hours before doing water changes).

I do also add RO Rite to my water with water changes which can raise GH. (longish story --- I had much trouble cycling my tank and I narrowed it down to my tap water, either something in the water inhibiting the bacteria or lacking from the water. After changing my water source to spring water and adding RO Rite my cycle took off and completed in 3 weeks after 4 months of no movement. I now am back to tap water but I add a small amount of RO Rite with each water change to enhance my tap water). So I emptied and refilled the tub with hot water and added a teaspoon of RO RIte to try to mimick the environment of the tank and see if it would help buffer the water. I tested this morning after about 12 hours and the PH plummeted again to 6.2.

I do have a small amount of crushed coral in my filter to buffer my water. Will the CC help keep the PH stable even with the DW piece in there or not? Should I not use it? Can DW even alter PH this much? The piece isn't even leeching any tannins in the water at all. I'm wondering if it's the piece the DW is attached to (thought it was slate but it seems like it's a white marble covered with something else -- see linked post above for photos and further info). I may try resoaking it and keeping the "slate" portion out of the water and testing it with just the DW in there to rule out that it's the bottom portion plummeting the PH and not the DW itself.

I LOVE this piece. I want to use it. Problem is I need it ready by tomorrow night. I'm receiving a new shipment of fish (YAY!) and my first ever live plants. I wanted to attach some of the live plants to the DW and then rescape the tank with the new DW and plants while the new fish are acclimating. What I don't want to do obviously is have the PH crash and lose all my fish.

Any thoughts?

 

[jlk]

Hi! I think your on the right track testing to see if the dw itself is causing the drop in ph or the 'slate' is also affecting it. Driftwood does cause the ph to lower but thats an awfully big drop. How is it attached to the slate piece (tied, glued,something else)? Slate itself really shouldnt affect your ph-if its marble, it would work as coral does & raise your ph. My suggestion would be to get a large pot & boil it for a few hrs (changing the pot water every 1/2hr or so). Just soaking new dw (without boiling) really needs to be done for a couple of wks or longer to get it stable. As you probably already know, the lack of sufficient buffers will cause your ph to drop even quicker-maybe you also try dosing with a higher amount ro minerals. I wouldnt put it anywhere near your tank until its stable-not worth the risk!

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks Jlk, you're always so helpful. It's screwed on. I removed the rusty-looking screws it came with and replaced them with stainless steel to prevent rust issues. There are pics in my previous post of what the piece and "slate" looks like: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/removing-rusty-screws-from-driftwood-178457.html

I'm baffled because I've read that the PH shouldn't be plummeting this much from the DW, so I'm not sure what's going on. I'm going to change out the water soon before I leave for work and just soak the DW and not the slate and test when I get home. If it's the bottom piece I can always replace it (and buy a drill to make some holes lol). If it isn't, I'm not sure what to do. If I had some extra crushed coral I'd throw that in the tub too to see if it would stabilize it but I don't have any on-hand although I could get some today.

I'm just sort of fighting the clock on this given that I wanted it ready for tomorrow. I guess I can always plant the new plants in the tank for now and not use the DW until I can find a way to stabilize the water but I really wanted to do it all at once.

As for the minerals, I thought of that too, but I have no way of knowing how many minerals are even in the tank now. I do two water changes per week and with one change I add a 1/4 teaspoon of RO Rite with the second change I add a 1/2 teaspoon. I'm going to get a TDS meter this week just to make sure I'm keeping the mineral content stable and it isn't building up too high for the fish but I don't even know what a proper mineral/TDS reading is and don't want to overdose (if that's even possible). Plus the RO Rite tends to help GH but not KH so it's possible the PH would plummet anyway. This is confusing.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[jlk]

Trying to help! Im not really sure what the proper mineral content should be either without more sophisticated tests for specific mineral contents (beyond just gh & kh). I really would just try boiling it to try to stabilize it when you have the time. Considering all the issues with your water, the dw may not be the best idea here...maybe a fake piece would be better? Just a thought!

 

[librarygirl]

Trying to help! Im not really sure what the proper mineral content should be either without more sophisticated tests for specific mineral contents (beyond just gh & kh). I really would just try boiling it to try to stabilize it when you have the time. Considering all the issues with your water, the dw may not be the best idea here...maybe a fake piece would be better? Just a thought!

Well I have a piece of DW in the tank now and it hasn't caused any issues at all. When I bought it I actually thought I was buying a fake piece but turned out it was real. lol I didn't even soak it before putting it into the tank (although this was when I was fishless cycling). After a week or so it leeched tannins for a few days and then stopped and I didn't notice any huge PH fluctuations. So I'm not sure if this new piece is different somehow or if it's the base it's attached to. I LOVE this new piece though so I'd love to use it if i can. Thanks

 

[jlk]

Good luck! Lets see if theres anything difference in ph minus the slate piece. Atleast, we will be able to rule it out (or perhaps in?). Hopefully, someone else has some ideas (im still sticking to boiling). And, yes, every piece of dw is different!

 

[librarygirl]

Update:

So I tested the water just now after changing it out this morning and keeping the "slate" bottom out of the water and PH is about 7-7.2 which is better than 6! So most likely it's that bottom piece. If I remember correctly my water left out overnight dropped to about the same PH (maybe slightly higher but I can't remember) so I think tonight I'll take the slate piece off, re-soak the DW in hot water and see what happens in the morning before I go to work.

I'll leave out some tap water again too and see if the PH's match. If they do, I just have to figure out what to attach to the bottom. :/ If not, then I'll have to hold off on using it.

If I do have to use something else to attach it I'll have to get it during my lunch hour tomorrow. I don't have a drill; I could maybe stop at Home Depot and get one. I'm guessing they'll have slate too or I could stop at PetCo and get some there and soak it while at work. Would that be enough time to use it tomorrow night?

Any thoughts?

 

[jlk]

Interesting! I would test whatever new piece of rock you purchase to attach the dw to overnight first before deciding to use it. Thats about the only suggestion i can offer other than i would lend you one of my husbands drills if you lived closer! Good luck & let us know how things turn out!

 

[OasisKeeper]

That's wild. I wonder what the old bottom is?
Hope this works out for you this morning. What you want is a 'masonry' bit to drill stone. Use water as a coolant while you drill.
And I see no reason it can't go in as long as you can skip the silicon and just use the SS screws to attach it.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks! Another update from this morning:

The water this morning (just DW only, no slate, soaking since last night when I refilled with hot water treated with Prime) and PH was about 7.2. I tested the tap water I let sit out as well and PH was a bit higher at 7.4-7.6 (a very light blue, so maybe 7.6 but I didn't bother to test the High Range). So I'm undecided as to what to do. If the PH stays stable at 7.2 I think that would be OK. However I think the first time I tested the water after noticing the PH drop it was 24 hours after I let it soak, not 12 hours. So it's possible it would drop even further.

I again emptied and refilled the tub with hot dechlorinated water this morning and put in some RO Rite and some crushed coral in the tub to try to mimick the conditions of the tank and I'll test when I get home. I'll have to decide what to do then.

My thinking is that even if the DW lowers the PH from the tank's "norm" from about 7.4-7.6 to about 7-7.2 it should be OK as long as it evens out and stays steady; am I correct?

I'd test the water at least twice daily of course and any sign of the PH dropping significantly I'd take the DW out, but do I want to chance it in the first place? It would look so awesome with some plants tied to it with the new background I put on! But if it's going to kill my fish then it isn't worth it. I have about 9 hours to decide as when I get home my new fish and plants will be in the mailbox waiting for me.

To be safe I may just hold off another day at least and let the DW soak for 24 hours and then test the water and make sure the PH doesn't drop back down to 6.

Oh, and the DW piece sank on its own. I think the holes made in its bottom from the screws helped it sink, so if I do use it I won't need to attach anything to the bottom (so there's a tip for anyone who wants to get DW to sink: drill some holes into it. ).

 

[jlk]

See what kind of results you get when you get home mimicking your tanks conditions and make a decision based on your results. If you are comfortable using the dw immediately & are confident you can prevent a ph crash, then go ahead & use it. Keeping a stable ph @7.2 should be fine but the key word is 'stable'. If theres any possibility its going to drop to 6 overnight, i personally wouldnt risk using it yet (you will wake up to a tank of dead fish) and i would keep soaking it until it stablizes permanently. Good luck & enjoy your new fish!

 

[librarygirl]

That's a good idea, thank you. I'm trying to remember the first time I posted when the PH went to 6, I mentioned I tested after 24 hours of it soaking but I'm wondering if that was a typo as I'm sure I would have changed the water out at least once during the 24 hour period. I can't be 100% certain though.

I may just let it soak for the full 24 hours to make sure it doesn't drop further than the 7's. Tonight I'll just add the new plants into the tank and I can always remove a few and attach them to the new DW piece tomorrow if the PH holds steady in the tub. Better to be safe than sorry and waiting another day or two to use the DW won't kill me (although it'll be tough! lol).

 

[librarygirl]

So this piece has been soaking for a week now and PH is still plummeting (even with the base removed). The water remains clear so there's no visible tannins in the water. Any idea what's going on? I'm wondering now what kind of wood it is and if it's even safe to use in the tank even though I bought it at an LFS. When wet, the piece turns a very dark brown. If I run my fingernail over the wood underneath looks a bit reddish but it could just be a lighter brown, it's hard to tell for sure.

I'm more perplexed about the PH issue though. I really want to use this piece but why is my PH plummeting so fast from the DW? I read that DW shouldn't affect PH this much. Any thoughts? Should I give up?

 

[OasisKeeper]

It seems to be leaching something acid, really hard to say what I think.

For me it would become a long term project at this point. Maybe leave it for a few weeks changing water whenever it was convenient and then doing a 24 hour test again then.

In the meantime, just find something else to start your plants on I guess. If things work out well and they grow, you can move cuttings in the future.

Really a shame this didn't pan out better.