pH starting to show signs of stability, nitrites and ammonia high

[xyyz]

exactly how long will my 29 gallon tank take to cycle? :/ it's been a month since i started it up.

i'm pumping it with Seachem's Stability daily. i assume there's enough surface area for bacteria growth. i upgraded the filter to a penguin biowheel 350 from a 200. i have a 170gph powerhead with a really large sponge filter. the aquarium is moderately planted. i also placed 3 medium sized pieces of mopani driftwood that's been releasing tannins into the water. ****, i hope they're tannins, cause the water has started to take a brownish-orange shade - and yes, i did wash, boil, and repeat the **** out of them.

the ammonia is a running problem. i have to treat the water with Amquel+ everday. i run through a bottle every two weeks or so. the seachem ammonia alert device shows the NH3 between 0-0.05ppm. considering the pH registered around 6, practically all of the ammonia was non-toxic NH4; however, with the increasing summer temperatures increasing the water temp to around 86F and the increasing pH the total ammonia will register more NH3.

nitrites were usually pretty low, but recently they shot up to 2ppm. i do daily water changes, and the local water supply is clean of nitrites, and shows about a 0.25ppm ammonia concentration.

since the Seachem ammonia indicator doesn't show high levels of ammonia, i guess Amquel+ is doing its job of neutrilizing the stuff. unfortunately, it's a lot less effective against nitrites. it takes about 20-30 mins to neutrize the nitrites, but give it a few hours and the effects wear away, which means i'm left with the same high concentrations of nitrites.

what's going on in this tank? what could cause these water conditions. i feed the fish only a little in the morning and then in the evening. there isn't anything decomposing in the water. there was some decomposing plants, but i removed those.

some questions:

1. as for knowing the tank has cycled, from previous tanks, i remember that brownish sludge that formed on the filter media. is this the bacteria colony, or is the colony some invisible thing?

2. can someone recommend some other really effective biological filter primer? 'cause this Seachem stuff doesn't seem to work.

3. is it okay to mix different biological filter bacteria strains? i have some API stuff that's sitting this one out since i'm using the Seachem stuff.

4. when i can swap over from Amquel+ to Seachem's Prime? the Amquel+ isn't as concentrated, and as a result, not as cost effective. i read you can't use them at the same time, so how much time must elapse before i can do the swap?

 

[rich311k]

You could easily have another month to go. The nitrites going up is a normal part of the cycle. Ammonia is broken down to nitrites which then are broken down to nitrates, which are then removed by water changes.

Your tank is going along quite normally. Keep up the water changes and testing, you still have a ways to go but you are getting there. Those biological additives really do not do much. Seeded gravel or filter media from an established tank is the only thing that works.

Just keep being patient and watching it is all you can do.

 

[marchmaxima]

It sounds to me your tank is cycling. Your readings certainly seem consistent with that. High Ammonia, then high NirITE... eventually, both of these will return to 0ppm and your NitrATE level will increase dramatically. Only then will the tank have finished cycling?

You can't really shortcut the cycling process, so I'd stop trying to fight it and just let it be. Stop using stuff to try to neutralise the ammonia and nitrite levels, unless you have tested your tap water and you have a positive ammonia reading. This is perfectly natural thing and the fact that you are getting 2ppm NitrITE is a good thing. It tells us your cycle is progressing nicely.

If there are currently fish in the tank you need to do lots of PWCs to ensure the ammonia and nitrITE levels stay under 1ppm and preferably at 0.5ppm. Otherwise your fish will be exposed to toxic conditions and this often results in death.

In regards to your specific questions:

1. Yes, the brown stuff in your filter is the beneficial bacteria colony. Whilst a little BB lives on the surface of your aquarium, the majority lives in the filter media.

2. I've never used it cos you can't get it here, but BioSpira is theonly known stuff to work,but it must have been shipped and stored correctly, otherwise it'll be dead. The rest of the other stuff are all known to be useless. Personally, I wouldn't bother. You already have some good bacteria growing because you are converting Ammonia to NitrITE andit is the bacteria doing this. Nature and time will allow them to multiply. Save your money.

3. See answer to Q2.

4. No reason you can't use Prime if you want to. That's what I use. What has caused you to believe you need to use Amquel+ ?

Also, someone should correct me if I am wrong, but PH is not affected by ammonia levels, nor temperature as far as I am aware. A stable PH is key, not correcting the PH to obtain a specific number... This can cause a lot of unexpected issues so don't mess with products such as PH Up/Down.

 

[xyyz]

4. No reason you can't use Prime if you want to. That's what I use. What has caused you to believe you need to use Amquel+ ?

Also, someone should correct me if I am wrong, but PH is not affected by ammonia levels, nor temperature as far as I am aware. A stable PH is key, not correcting the PH to obtain a specific number... This can cause a lot of unexpected issues so don't mess with products such as PH Up/Down.

i'm using it to keep the ammonia and nitrites at lower levels to prevent harm to the fish.

maybe i wrote something that i should have phrased better. what i mean is that pH and temp affect the type of ammonia present in the water. the higher the pH and the higher the temp the more the NH3 vs. NH4.

the stuff you learn when you make mistakes. i messed not only with a liquid pH reducer, but also a powder pH reducer when i started the tank. it FLOORED the pH from 8.4 to below 6 and oblitterated the kH from 120ppm to 0ppm OVERNIGHT. only recently has the pH and kH started to recover.

one more question:

how long does this bacteria colony survive out of water or with no running water? i have oodles and oodles of the stuff in an older aquarium that had it embedded in the deeper parts of the substrate/undergravel filter for like 3 years. i drained almost all of the stuff, but there's still a bit of water and some loose sludge. can i scoop it up and smear it on my filter media?

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

one more question:

how long does this bacteria colony survive out of water or with no running water? i have oodles and oodles of the stuff in an older aquarium that had it embedded in the deeper parts of the substrate/undergravel filter for like 3 years. i drained almost all of the stuff, but there's still a bit of water and some loose sludge. can i scoop it up and smear it on my filter media?

they can survive for a little while as long as they are damp(like a day or 2), they need oxygen mostly. But without having a source of ammonia to feed on sitting in a tank they will die off. The bacteria are invisable, not a brown sludge, If you have sludge, I deff would Not smear that.

As far as your other concerns, its best Not to add many chemicals to your water. Why are you trying to change the PH of your water? Are you still adding things that change PH? How many fish are in the tank?

You should be fine cycling your tank with fish in it, only controlling Ammonia and Nitrites with water changes.

 

[Purrbox]

A typical cycle starting from scratch will take 6 weeks give or take a couple of weeks. Based on this, your aquarium appears to be right on track time wise.

As already mentioned, most of the biological additives available have been shown to be mostly worthless and don't speed up the cycle at all. You best bet is to obtain some filter media or gravel from a healthy established aquarium and add it to your filter. If this isn't available you can try BioSpira, but it's only effective if it's stored properly at all times and is expensive.

If the gravel or filter media in question has been without an ammonia source for more than a couple of days, it's unlikely to help your new aquarium at all. Worth a shot if you don't have any other sources to seed your filter, but don't expect much. The only time you actually see the Beneficial Bacteria is when your water gets cloudy white with a bacteria bloom. That brown sludge is just mulm and not the bacteria.

You can switch from AmQuel+ to Prime at any time. I wouldn't mix them during the same water change, but switching from one to the next a day apart should be perfectly fine.

 

[xyyz]

as usual, thanks for all the guidance. the amquel+, is it somehow inhibitting the cycle by neutralizing the ammonia and nitrites?

another unrelated question:
the temp in this area breaks the century mark, and the rickety AC has trouble keeping the house cool. the temp in the tank can rise to 86-88F. the fish are angels, a discus, killies, and a gourami, and i don't know how well they can handle the heat. should i get a chiller for this tank?

 

[rich311k]

They should handle it fine. Discus prefer it that warm.

 

[xyyz]

i think the angelfish like it that warm too. the male angel tends to become dark in higher temps.

that's a relief. the chiller would set me back a few hundred.

 

[Purrbox]

Amquel+ and Prime both neutralize Ammonia and Nitrite by converting them to non toxic forms. While this may make the bacteria work a little harder to convert them, it won't make them unusable by the bacteria.

 

[xyyz]

i woke up today to find the once crystal clear water, completely cloudy.

this is a good thing right? does the cloudiness indicate a bacteria bloom?

also, i've had two local fish stores tell me to steer clear away from Amquel+. both places stocked Amquel, but avoided Amquel+. anyone hear horror stories about Amquel+?

 

[Purrbox]

As long as the cloudiness is white, it's probably the bacteria bloom and a very good sign that things are progressing well. Should go away in a few days.

 

[xyyz]

yeps. the cloudiness was white-ish. unfortunatey, it's pretty much gone today. was the partial water change a bad idea?

 

[Purrbox]

That just means that the bacteria are settling on the surfaces of your aquarium, including in your filter. Not a bad sign by any means.

 

[xyyz]

the nitrates are still holding around 2ppm. i've swapped to Prime. i added a double dose to neutralize the nitrites. i'll test again in 30mins to an hour to see if Prime's done it's job.

i hope the tank cycles by another week, but from the looks of it, i don't think that's happening.

EDIT:

a few hours later and i gotta say that i'm really disappointed with Prime. i followed the instructions for an nitrite emergency. i dosed 5x the single dose as instructed, and the nitrites still haven't decreased.

with Amquel+, the nitrites would vanish within 30-45 minutes of treating the water.

 

[Purrbox]

Please keep in mind that Prime detoxifies the Ammonia and Nitrite, it doesn't remove them. It is still possible for a test kit to register them in their nontoxic forms.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Yeah many products just detoxify as described above, most times they are still read on the test, they are just less harmful to the fish

 

[xyyz]

hmmm... i wonder what Amquel+ does differently then. 'cause the tests don't register a trace of nitrites after using it.

also, if you look at the Amquel+ writeup from Kordon, they specifically say the products targets nitrites. if you look at what Seachem says about prime and nitrites, they say that it's a plesant surprise that Prime does it what it does to nitrites. they base this on the input of Prime users, not on anything they've done on their own it seems. they then go on to day that they have no clue how or why it reduces nitrites.