PhosGuard Seemingly Not Working; Here's Seachem's Response...

[Fishguy2727]

It doesn't matter, you can't have a tank without water changes. If you aren't doing water changes get rid of the fish and take the tank down, otherwise the fish will only suffer. Water changes are not an option. Hook up a python to your sink and do a water change.

DO NOT add any fish until you start a proper water change schedule (weekly and enough to keep the nitrate at no more than 20ppm before the water change).

 

[Osage_Winter]

It doesn't matter, you can't have a tank without water changes. If you aren't doing water changes get rid of the fish and take the tank down, otherwise the fish will only suffer. Water changes are not an option. Hook up a python to your sink and do a water change.

DO NOT add any fish until you start a proper water change schedule (weekly and enough to keep the nitrate at no more than 20ppm before the water change).

Apparently, you didn't read any of the other threads I referenced; I do not have a sink anywhere near this tank to hook a syphon up to and although this probably should have been planned when the tank was bought, it is what it is now.

 

[Fishguy2727]

They make Pythons in 25', 50', and 100' and have 20' extensions, there is no excuse to not use them or to not be doing water changes. You can buy the parts for the Python and use tubing from the hardware store to make a python long enough to use water from your neighbor's house. Do water changes or get rid of the fish.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...there is no excuse to not use them or to not be doing water changes....

There are more than I'd ever imagined possible.

 

[Osage_Winter]

They make Pythons in 25', 50', and 100' and have 20' extensions, there is no excuse to not use them or to not be doing water changes. You can buy the parts for the Python and use tubing from the hardware store to make a python long enough to use water from your neighbor's house. Do water changes or get rid of the fish.

I have made it clear several times that we do not plan on dragging a hundred feet of tubing down our staircase to reach the nearest sink to change the water out in this tank -- that's all she wrote about that.

However, I am going to attempt a change tonight with the syphon I have (I know it's gonna be a disaster) because it's been too long at any rate.

I also wanted to share some snippets I found from folks that have gone years, or never, before doing a water change; I thought the perspectives were interesting:

I have had aquariums planted, high tech, low tech, non planted, crazy looking, etc. For as long as I can remember starting with my planted guppy tanks when I was 8 years old.

I never really talk to other hobbyists about my tanks or their tanks. But recently found a group who are as enthusiastic over their tanks as I am mine.

My WHOLE life I was taught to keep on top of water changes above all else make sure you do your water changes the end.

But these people have been in the hobby a LOT longer than me I mean most of them were in college when I was born. And one has had the same tank for 40 years. We started talking about upkeep and I mentioned I do water changes every 2-3 weeks. And they were shocked and I was shocked that they were shocked.

According to them they only ever do water changes twice a year... WHAT!? I asked to see pictures of their parameters and they were better than mine! Most are planted and some aren't. They have great filters that are done regular maintenance on. Some have delicate fish like discus and some have basic fish like gouramis, etc. All have bottom dwellers like snails, crabs, shrimp,etc. One even has a tank of turtles. I couldn't imagine not doing water changes on my turtles tanks....

How is it possible that most of them do not do regular water changes and their parameters are perfect?

and this one in particular caught my attention:

I have been keeping fish for about 25 years now. I NEVER do water changes. I've always disagreed with the water change theory. Matured water is essential to the ecosystem. The proper filtration eliminates the need for water changes. I mimic nature. Filter the water and add as it evaporates. Do oceans, ponds and lakes get water changes? Nope. They are filtered naturally and weather evaporates and refills them. In my opinion removing a large amount of water and replacing it with "new" water can dramatically change the chemistry and temperature of the tank water which can stress the fish. I'm sure you've found that not many aquarists totally agree on every subject. Most people who've kept fish for a while consider themselves experts. Do what works for you.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Please reference the person who you quoted. I'm sure there is a method that they use to maintain good water quality naturally. You cannot just say "look these guys don't do PWCs, so I guess I don't have to either". That quote says it right in there:

I asked to see pictures of their parameters and they were better than mine

this means they are doing something you are NOT DOING in order to maintain their water parameters. I repeat. You are not doing what they are doing. Unless you follow whatever technique they are using, specifically, then you must do something else to maintain clean water. PWCs.

If you can show us exactly what this unknown person you are quoting is doing and share it with us, then do it, and it fixes all your problems, then our advice will likely change.

Until then: do water changes.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Please reference the person who you quoted. I'm sure there is a method that they use to maintain good water quality naturally. You cannot just say "look these guys don't do PWCs, so I guess I don't have to either". That quote says it right in there:

I asked to see pictures of their parameters and they were better than mine

this means they are doing something you are NOT DOING in order to maintain their water parameters. I repeat. You are not doing what they are doing. Unless you follow whatever technique they are using, specifically, then you must do something else to maintain clean water. PWCs.

If you can show us exactly what this unknown person you are quoting is doing and share it with us, then do it, and it fixes all your problems, then our advice will likely change.

Until then: do water changes.

I am not SAYING that "well, they don't do water changes, so I don't have to either!" That WAS NOT my stance at all by supplying those clips -- I just said the perspective was interesting.

Further, there's no one to really "reference" from these; they were found within a thread on Yahoo answers and the topic was water changes. Also -- I am not expecting any of you to change your advice about this; that's not why I provided the quotes.

 

[Osage_Winter]

I asked to see pictures of their parameters and they were better than mine

this means they are doing something you are NOT DOING in order to maintain their water parameters. I repeat. You are not doing what they are doing. Unless you follow whatever technique they are using, specifically, then you must do something else to maintain clean water. PWCs.

Plus, with regard to this statement, I don't believe that's what that member (of the other community) actually meant; I think his point was that even with his maitenance and hard work with changes and such, their parameters were very good without doing all this work. The conversation had more depth than this; I clipped what I felt was interesting -- but I'm not arguing against the changes, I am just explaining my perspective.

 

[Osage_Winter]

If you can show us exactly what this unknown person you are quoting is doing and share it with us, then do it, and it fixes all your problems, then our advice will likely change.

Until then: do water changes.

I also wanted to respond to this specifically, because it's a bit far fetched in my opinion; I realize I was going to get all kinds of arguments and comment flinging with phrases such as "this unknown person" and "who knows if you even made this up yourself?" but I was prepared for that -- I'm not asking you to believe any of the things this person said, nor did I make it up myself. What this "person" did, according to the Yahoo! Answers thread, was merely rely on what he calls "adequate filtration" and top offs instead of complete water changes...something I was experimenting with. He kind of makes that clear in the second paragraph I quoted and posted (the second comment of the two).

As for asking me to "just do it" to share with you, I have been doing it -- so far the fish haven't died (and I'm not defending the no water change theory) and I have been plagued with horrible diatom outbreaks. So, the route now is to either do changes or see if the parameters get worse or come more in check.

The subject in question here, though, is the diatoms -- I have to wait and hear back from Seachem in the meantime. The PhosGuard I added to the filter doesn't seem to be working yet.

 

[WendiDell]

I also wanted to respond to this specifically, because it's a bit far fetched in my opinion; I realize I was going to get all kinds of arguments and comment flinging with phrases such as "this unknown person" and "who knows if you even made this up yourself?" but I was prepared for that -- I'm not asking you to believe any of the things this person said, nor did I make it up myself. What this "person" did, according to the Yahoo! Answers thread, was merely rely on what he calls "adequate filtration" and top offs instead of complete water changes...something I was experimenting with. He kind of makes that clear in the second paragraph I quoted and posted (the second comment of the two).

As for asking me to "just do it" to share with you, I have been doing it -- so far the fish haven't died (and I'm not defending the no water change theory) and I have been plagued with horrible diatom outbreaks. So, the route now is to either do changes or see if the parameters get worse or come more in check.

The subject in question here, though, is the diatoms -- I have to wait and hear back from Seachem in the meantime. The PhosGuard I added to the filter doesn't seem to be working yet.

OK, maybe it's me but, it seems everyone has ignored the fact that the "Professionals" at Seachem feel that the culprit is Osage's Tap water.
So even if/when he does PWC, he's only adding fresh nutrients for the Diatoms.
Fresh nutrients means more Diatoms, yes?
That being the case wouldn't heavier filtration be a better idea than adding to the problem, by adding new food for the Diatoms?
And adding a couple bristlenose to help eliminate the existing diatoms?
If Seachem is correct, then his tap water is the villain, here.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Actually yes, lakes, ponds, and rivers do get water changes, many times over every day. What do you think flowing water is? The best water change system I have seen is a constant one. There is constantly water going into the system and it is constantly overflowing. You get anywhere from 1x to 5x or more turnover per day.

Yes, I am sure some people have figured out how to successfully have a planted tank with effectively no routine water changes, but that is not you, and it is not with a bunch of goldfish in 60.

Show me your water parameters that prove you don't need to do water changes and I will stop bothering you about doing them. Otherwise do water changes or for the sake of the fish get rid of them.

 

[severum mama]

I have made it clear several times that we do not plan on dragging a hundred feet of tubing down our staircase to reach the nearest sink to change the water out in this tank -- that's all she wrote about that.

However, I am going to attempt a change tonight with the syphon I have (I know it's gonna be a disaster) because it's been too long at any rate.

I also wanted to share some snippets I found from folks that have gone years, or never, before doing a water change; I thought the perspectives were interesting:

I have had aquariums planted, high tech, low tech, non planted, crazy looking, etc. For as long as I can remember starting with my planted guppy tanks when I was 8 years old.

I never really talk to other hobbyists about my tanks or their tanks. But recently found a group who are as enthusiastic over their tanks as I am mine.

My WHOLE life I was taught to keep on top of water changes above all else make sure you do your water changes the end.

But these people have been in the hobby a LOT longer than me I mean most of them were in college when I was born. And one has had the same tank for 40 years. We started talking about upkeep and I mentioned I do water changes every 2-3 weeks. And they were shocked and I was shocked that they were shocked.

According to them they only ever do water changes twice a year... WHAT!? I asked to see pictures of their parameters and they were better than mine! Most are planted and some aren't. They have great filters that are done regular maintenance on. Some have delicate fish like discus and some have basic fish like gouramis, etc. All have bottom dwellers like snails, crabs, shrimp,etc. One even has a tank of turtles. I couldn't imagine not doing water changes on my turtles tanks....

How is it possible that most of them do not do regular water changes and their parameters are perfect?

and this one in particular caught my attention:

I have been keeping fish for about 25 years now. I NEVER do water changes. I've always disagreed with the water change theory. Matured water is essential to the ecosystem. The proper filtration eliminates the need for water changes. I mimic nature. Filter the water and add as it evaporates. Do oceans, ponds and lakes get water changes? Nope. They are filtered naturally and weather evaporates and refills them. In my opinion removing a large amount of water and replacing it with "new" water can dramatically change the chemistry and temperature of the tank water which can stress the fish. I'm sure you've found that not many aquarists totally agree on every subject. Most people who've kept fish for a while consider themselves experts. Do what works for you.

Is this the crap from Yahoo Answers again? ANYONE can make stuff up and post it on there.

OK, maybe it's me but, it seems everyone has ignored the fact that the "Professionals" at Seachem feel that the culprit is Osage's Tap water.
So even if/when he does PWC, he's only adding fresh nutrients for the Diatoms.
Fresh nutrients means more Diatoms, yes?
That being the case wouldn't heavier filtration be a better idea than adding to the problem, by adding new food for the Diatoms?
And adding a couple bristlenose to help eliminate the existing diatoms?
If Seachem is correct, then his tap water is the villain, here.

Yes, they feel it is the tap water. Without testing for phosphate, etc. that is just a guess. I wonder if they are aware that the tank hasn't seen a water change in however long it has been. Filtration has nothing to do with diatom outbreaks. You could put 5 canister filters on there and the root cause of the diatoms would still not be addressed. Adding fish to a tank that doesn't see water changes is just a bad idea, as has been explained.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What this "person" did, according to the Yahoo! Answers thread, was merely rely on what he calls "adequate filtration" and top offs instead of complete water changes...something I was experimenting with.

You have no basis for running such an experiment, all you did was look at some claim on some random website by some random person, claiming to know about some other random unknown person who does water changes twice a year and has great water chemistry. Then, without doing any further research into exactly how this unknown person referenced by the random person achieved this goal (and I'm sure there IS someone out there who has managed to make this happen), you decided that this course of action was way, way easier than lugging half full 5 gallon buckets around, buying a real siphon that works, and actually taking the advice of people on this website that has been given to you over and over again.

Case in point:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...e-with-filling-up-a-tank-too-much-136568.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...tbreak-of-some-kind-at-this-point-136550.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/i-think-i-wanna-finally-add-some-purigen-136572.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...it-results-please-help-me-analyze-136685.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...nally-to-show-whats-going-on-here-136665.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...sure-if-this-is-the-right-section-136811.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...two-please-help-analyze-once-more-136836.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/okay-i-have-had-it-with-water-changes-136785.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/filter-media-137033.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/diatoms-have-gotten-worse-suggestions-137078.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...astrous-attempt-at-a-water-change-137107.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/situation-update-thoughts-are-welcome-137154.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ht-i-had-about-my-aquaclear-110-a-137315.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/complete-attack-of-the-diatoms-137483.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/will-nipped-fantails-repair-regenerate-137521.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/preventative-methods-for-possible-ich-symptoms-138431.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-please-help-me-analyze-once-more-137883.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...n-pack-already-on-aquaclear-110-a-141238.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/a-diatom-filter-may-be-in-order-141424.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/okay-dropped-the-phosguard-into-my-filter-141779.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/the-diatoms-have-returned-need-solutions-140198.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/api-test-results-round-4-please-help-me-analyze-141604.html

Almost every single one of these threads has advice repeated over and over again about how to solve the problems you are having, yet you resist following the advice given at almost every chance, posting long drawn out responses, finding a multitude of ways to justify whatever it is you are thinking and then you decide to just keep doing what you're doing because apparently none of the advice given in any of these threads makes it easy for you to keep fish, even though it is actually quite easy to do PWCs once a week, clean your filter pads now, and change them now and then. But you resist this at every turn, no matter how many people attempt to advise you. I have been keeping fish on and off for 20 years. I have given you sound advice. You have chosen to not even attempt to take my advice.

I will tell you this, there is such an aquarium known as a Dutch Aquarium that is heavily planted and very lightly stocked with fish that requires, in some cases, no filtration whatsoever. The plants do all the filtration and since there is very little bio-load (fish) whatever they produce is absorbed by the plants. Ponds work in the same manner, the plants - mainly algae, which is why you can't see 2" down in a pond - absorb the excess waste produced by the fish using sunlight. Your tank is a far cry from this balanced ecosystem, and I severely, severely doubt that anyone could achieve good water chemistry in a non-planted freshwater tank unless they were using some sort of plant filtration system away from the display tank to absorb the excess nutrients. It's chemistry. There is no magical solution. Bottom line. You need to do water changes and clean/change filter pad regularly. BOTTOM LINE.

I noticed that several members have posted on various threads that they suspect you are a troll, but I never have seen a response from you. I'm thinking that maybe you think this is an insult towards you personally. It is not, it is a statement. A troll, in this case, intentionally posts statement intending to provoke others into a desired emotional response.

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I submit to you that you are performing some sort of social experiment in all of these threads. I don't know what your purpose in this experiment is, perhaps you're writing a book about how to get people enraged by asking for advice and then not taking it, then asking for the same advice in a slightly different way and then not taking it again, then asking for advice from someone else on another site, posting it here, showing that you took a quantum leap in assumption and took that advice, then ask us about it and ask for our advice, then still not take it or care about anything we say, just to see what kind of response you will get from us.

The reason I submit this to you is evidenced by the threads listed above. If you are not a troll, then I expect a long, drawn out, sincere explanation or exactly why you have chosen to solicit our advice, then refused to take it. Because you have indeed flat out refused to take it. I mean really. Buy a better siphon and try it. You stated several times after I gave that advice several times that you would indeed do it, then weeks later came back and said "I'm just going to deal with the one I have" I.E. ignored my advice. Buy some extra 5g buckets and try it. Do PWCs this way from now on, or time your time and effort into something else.

Do you have any idea how many people have given you sound advice that you have refused to take, and how many people gave you bad advice that made things sound simple and easy that you did take, which just led you back here asking more advice from people who would then give you good advice which you then would not take?

I for one am through banging my head on the wall.

Here are a few excerpts from the Terms Of Service

• Do not post unsubstantiated gossip, libelous remarks or directly misleading information.
• Trolling or cyber-bullying are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or banishment. Harassment, stalking or predatory behavior will result in account suspension.
• Do not post the same discussion more than once or in many forums.

I have said my peace. Peace out!

 

[WendiDell]

Is this the crap from Yahoo Answers again? ANYONE can make stuff up and post it on there.



Yes, they feel it is the tap water. Without testing for phosphate, etc. that is just a guess. I wonder if they are aware that the tank hasn't seen a water change in however long it has been. Filtration has nothing to do with diatom outbreaks. You could put 5 canister filters on there and the root cause of the diatoms would still not be addressed. Adding fish to a tank that doesn't see water changes is just a bad idea, as has been explained.

The point I was trying to make was, if the tap water is the cause of the Diatoms, how is taking out some old water and putting in new but bad water going to eliminate his Diatom bloom problem?
As far as the PWC goes, in a normal situation PWC are always good.
Also, he has to have done some PCW or his Ammonia level would be much higher than .25ppm. Yes that is higher than it should be and usually warrants a PWC immediately. But he's trying to figure out how to resolve his phosphate and Diatom Bloom problems. That was what this post/thread is about
And this isn't a quote from a website this is a a face to face conversation.
I have a Doctor that has 3 tanks that he has a service take care of. I know because I asked. He has 2 in his office, a 10g currently no fish, a low light 20g with 4 adult Silver Dollar fish and in his waiting room a 60g with an unknown amount of Guppies. He started with 4 and now has to many to count.
The 20g with the Silver Dollar fish that he has had for several years has never had a water change, and the fish are thriving. They've never been sick and it's always been those 4. He's never lost one for any reason. Not many can make that claim.
I don't know what his water parameters are and neither does he, the service does. But since he gets the bill he knows what they have and haven't done.
I'm not recommending this, I agree with PWC. But, I've seen this with my own eyes and my Doctor wouldn't lie about his fish, he has no need to.
So these Yahoo posts could be accurate.
So does anyone have any idea how to fix Osage Winter's problem with high phosphates and silicates? If I remember his original question. If it is coming from his tap water? And how can he get rid of the Diatom bloom if his tap water is feeding the bloom?
I forgot to mention the other thing about my Doctors 20g tank. The water is clear, no algae, nothing. I would love to tell you all how it is that his tank has never needed a PWC and his fish are healthy, but my Doctor doesn't know how it happened either.
Again, let me stress, I am in no way saying we shouldn't do PWC.
Enjoy your weekend all.

 

[severum mama]

And the point I was trying to make is, there is no evidence at this point that the problem is phosphate or silicate in the tap water. No testing has been done. Feeding fish can add phosphate to the water. Some substrates are a source of silicates.

Silver dollars do not belong in a 20 gallon. Some hardy fish can survive going for years without water changes, but does that mean they are thriving? Clearly not, if their growth has been stunted enough that they can still squeeze into a 20 gallon after a few years. If this doctor is paying a service to maintain his tanks and there are no water changes being done, I'm afraid he is getting royally ripped off.

As for the ammonia reading, I'm sure it's gone up to crazy levels and then come back down. Some hardy fish like goldfish can actually survive the process without frequent and massive water changes. Will it have an impact on their longevity? More than likely IMO. But it's possible for them to survive. With no water changes being done, I'm not surprised to see an ammonia reading in a tank that should have long been cycled by now.

IF in fact this is an issue with tap water, the easiest way to solve the problem would be to use RO water, which the OP has already expressed unwillingness to do.

 

[DragonFish71]

First line of the third bulleted paragraph and I quote:

"Minimize nutrient levels with frequent water changes."
Algae control in the aquarium


"Phosphate

Phosphate as a by-product of mineralization of dead matter such as plants, bacteria, feces, uneaten food, fish slime etc. are all internal contributors.

Dead plant material or rotting food particles settle either on the substrate or within the filter. Rinsing filter materials and vacuuming the aquarium gravel at every water change can significantly reduce potential phosphate accumulation from these internal sources.
Silicate

The most common points of entry are the substrate, salt, and water. Please keep in mind, that R/O and D.I. units (filters to purify tap water by membranes or by chemical/ mechanical processes creating distilled water) will prevent silicates only for a few days, before they find the way through the membranes.

Another form of silicates is silicid acid, created by decaying organic matter. Same as phosphates, they can be water insoluble at a high pH, and become readily available with decreasing pH levels."
Water Parameters & Your Aquarium - Algone.com




Those are just 2 of many articles I found by using a simple google search of "how to reduce high phosphates and silicates in a fresh water aquarium".




Notice the trend of "do water changes"?





Wendi,

Just because the water change isn't on your doctor's invoice that doesn't mean the company doesn't do them. My LFS and I myself offer these same services and neither of us put water changes on our invoices. I put them under " general tank maintenance" and they put it under "other package included". So you can't honestly say for sure if PWCs are being done or not.



Secondly, as you do promote water changes, perhaps you should understand that dilution is the solution to pollution. The more you do a water change, the more you are removing the other issues that cause the outbreaks of diatoms/algae/ammonia etc.




Since the OP has issues with doing regular maintenance on his tank, he is in essence causing his own problems.

Until he either

A) gets a grip and starts a regular maintenance schedule instead of shooing away the great advice that many people have given him through out his self-made saga

B) finds a company to hire that does these types of services

C) re-homes the fish and dismantles the tank

he will continue to have issues and judging from all his replies in all his posts, this one included, he will continue to ignore advice and egg people on.

 

[WendiDell]

Three things, first how can you be "sure" his ammonia levels have gone way up and back down again?
And the second, My doctor knows that there haven't been any PWC in that tank only, because he's there when the service does the work. The other tank with the Guppies, does get PWC on occasion.
And third, I made a typo, it's a 30g tank with 4 Silver Dollar fish and they are doing very well. They are active, and show no signs of stress or distress and are now 7 years old.
Don't stunted fish die early?

 

[Fishguy2727]

How big are those silver dollars?

Yes, in general stunted fish will not live out their full life span. However, sevem years is not a full life span. Just because fish don't die in a few years doesn't mean they are being properly taken care. I just means they aren't so poorly cared for that you haven't killed them yet.

 

[DragonFish71]

Wendi,

Alright, since you really want to keep dragging this out, I'll work with it. Mind you, I'm trying to keep it civil but I'm not going to hold back.

1) All we know about the OP and his tank is that:

A) He has water quality issues because he doesn't want to deal with the "hard work" of doing regular tank maintenance, which includes water changes.

B) Instead of doing said water changes on a regular schedule, he'd rather leave it to chemicals and filtration to do the job. Which is basically letting the fish swim in their own waste and slime. Topping off isn't cleaning.

C) Instead of taking the great advice he has been given in this and other posts, he continually ignores said advice and complains that it's too much work to keep a fish tank. Not to mention he has been antagonistic when people try to help.

D) People back up their advice with links, maybe kind of like the ones I posted, and it's still ignored.

So the only things we can be sure of are that he doesn't take advice and wants to take the "easy" way to fish care taking. Neither of which give a person high marks in my book.



2) So you know absolutely, 100%, bet your life on it, that they don't ever do PWCs on your doctor's tank? He could be dealing with a patient, or at lunch, or something. I highly doubt he's there every single time they are. They have to do something to keep it regulated. Even with Dutch method tanks the water needs to be changed, though not as frequently as your run of the mill tank like most of us keep.


3) Even at 30g, you as a hobbyist should slap him/her upside the head and make it known that tank is insufficient. I can promise you I have no issues in that department. We have a Chinese buffet up the rode from our house, great food, great prices but I refuse to eat there. They keep a juvie arowana in a disgusting, over stocked, under cleaned 55g. I had absolutly no qualms reading the owner the riot act and boycotting his business. Since my friends heard about it, they told their friends, who told their friends, you get the point.

 

[severum mama]

How big are those silver dollars?

Yes, in general stunted fish will not live out their full life span. However, sevem years is not a full life span. Just because fish don't die in a few years doesn't mean they are being properly taken care. I just means they aren't so poorly cared for that you haven't killed them yet.

This.

Wendi,

Alright, since you really want to keep dragging this out, I'll work with it. Mind you, I'm trying to keep it civil but I'm not going to hold back.

1) All we know about the OP and his tank is that:

A) He has water quality issues because he doesn't want to deal with the "hard work" of doing regular tank maintenance, which includes water changes.

B) Instead of doing said water changes on a regular schedule, he'd rather leave it to chemicals and filtration to do the job. Which is basically letting the fish swim in their own waste and slime. Topping off isn't cleaning.

C) Instead of taking the great advice he has been given in this and other posts, he continually ignores said advice and complains that it's too much work to keep a fish tank. Not to mention he has been antagonistic when people try to help.

D) People back up their advice with links, maybe kind of like the ones I posted, and it's still ignored.

So the only things we can be sure of are that he doesn't take advice and wants to take the "easy" way to fish care taking. Neither of which give a person high marks in my book.





2) So you know absolutely, 100%, bet your life on it, that they don't ever do PWCs on your doctor's tank? He could be dealing with a patient, or at lunch, or something. I highly doubt he's there every single time they are. They have to do something to keep it regulated. Even with Dutch method tanks the water needs to be changed, though not as frequently as your run of the mill tank like most of us keep.


3) Even at 30g, you as a hobbyist should slap him/her upside the head and make it known that tank is insufficient. I can promise you I have no issues in that department. We have a Chinese buffet up the rode from our house, great food, great prices but I refuse to eat there. They keep a juvie arowana in a disgusting, over stocked, under cleaned 55g. I had absolutly no qualms reading the owner the riot act and boycotting his business. Since my friends heard about it, they told their friends, who told their friends, you get the point.

And this.