please help me!!

[LostLoach]

ok so i want to build my own sump iv been checkin out some videos on youtube and i think the best wat for me would be using like a plastic storage bin with a 5g bucket i dont quite know how the whole thing works like how do u get the water to flow down to the sump i know you use a pump to return flow but yah please help me out any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.its a 55 gallon tank
thanks-david

 

[WhiteDevil]

An overflow box unless the tank is "reef ready" or pre-drilled.
Look up DIY overflow on youtube, im suprised you didnt see one already being you looked for a DIY sump, they usually come up together in the results.

 

[Deep Seven]

 

[LostLoach]

that helped deep seven thanks the diagram cleared it up thank you i now understand that the water down to the sump is started by sucking in air through the airline right? and sorry just to clarify will just a regular power head work for a return pump if not what should i get? how would i drill the specimen box? and were can i find these supplies like u tube..home depot?
and white devil its a 55 plexi freshwater and really dont want to risk drilling because the tank is pretty old..

 

[Crepe]

That HOB overflow scares me. What happens when the power goes out and you lose the siphon and then the power comes back? Your return pump will continually put water in until your tank completely spills over...I suggest drilling or getting a self-priming overflow.

EDIT: Oh, that's what that tubing is for. Well then, you need to figure out a way to suck air out of the top tube. I think a strong pump and venturi would do it. But any pump capable of putting out the GPH to form a big enough vacuum would probably generate too much flow for a FW tank...

 

[ezy33]

If done right the siphon will not break due to the "U" tube will have both ends under water even with the pump off. To keep the return line from siphoning from the tank into the sump there should be a small hole near the water line. when the power goes off the hole will break the siphon back into the sump.

The air line tubing is to start the "U" tube siphon and to bleed off any air that gets trapped there.

I built the basic overflow pictured above. The only parts from the LFS were the "U" tube and the specimen boxes.

As for pump size you will need to calculate the flow rate for the overflow box.

 

[Crepe]

If done right the siphon will not break due to the "U" tube will have both ends under water even with the pump off. To keep the return line from siphoning from the tank into the sump there should be a small hole near the water line. when the power goes off the hole will break the siphon back into the sump.

The air line tubing is to start the "U" tube siphon and to bleed off any air that gets trapped there.

I built the basic overflow pictured above. The only parts from the LFS were the "U" tube and the specimen boxes.

As for pump size you will need to calculate the flow rate for the overflow box.

That is incorrect. When the pump goes off the siphon will continue to drain until the vacuum is broken. It will not reform even when the return pump fills the overflow box again. You flood your tank.

You need to make it self priming with a very strong pump and venturi valve. The pump will probably be too much flow for a FW set up unless it's a white water set up for balitorids or white clouds.

 

[ezy33]

When the pump is off the "U" tubes ends will stay under water. in the digram above the output for the outside box should be taller. Closer to the water level of the inside box. At least it works in my system.

Sumps are most useful in reef tanks. In my opinion they are more trouble than they worth on fresh water tanks.

 

[Crepe]

When the pump is off the "U" tubes ends will stay under water. in the digram above the output for the outside box should be taller. Closer to the water level of the inside box. At least it works in my system.

I suppose if you were to level it perfectly it would indeed maintain the vacuum, but wouldn't any vibrations throw it off? All it takes is one micro bubble of air to break the vacuum.

 

[LostLoach]

well i have read all your guys info/ideas and im stuck i guess i should just stick to a hob filter because this sounds pretty risky. thank you guys for all of your input very much helped me make a decision i appreciate it even though it sounds like a sump wont work out
thanks again-david

 

[kdogg85]

Look at the cpr overflow boxes, no u tube? Holds vaccum without water pumping from the sump. I have one on my 75g sa cichlid tank and it works fine. Mine is 600gph overflow with a 700gph return pump. The pump pushes 4ft up to the outlet in the tank.

 

[ezy33]

do you

I suppose if you were to level it perfectly it would indeed maintain the vacuum, but wouldn't any vibrations throw it off? All it takes is one micro bubble of air to break the vacuum.

Do you have or have you ever used a over flow box?

 

[Crepe]

Do you have or have you ever used a over flow box?

No, but I have a good understanding of physics. The water would drain from the U-tube until it becomes completely level with the tube, at which point it would only take a small disturbance to throw the water off and break the vacuum... It's why CPR's overflow boxes have a total of 4 balancing screws to make their overflows more failproof.

 

[ezy33]

In my opinion the CPR's system is too complicated, having to have a pump to ensure the siphon doesn't break. Also it's harder to clean. But it does work on the same principle. If both ends of the "U" tube are under water hydraulics will keep it full. There are many other brands of overflow boxes on the market that work just fine using the "U" tube system. Eshopps uses the "U" tube with any problems.

 

[WhiteDevil]

My CPR is easy to clean and operate, tom vacuum pump on top. Great when the power goes off and on. You run a greater risk of overfilling the tank with a DIY unit then you do a manufactured unit.

wet/dry filters (sumps) are a breeze to operate. IMO they are much easier then a canister, about as easy as a aquaclear HOB

 

[Deep Seven]

The water would drain from the U-tube until it becomes completely level with the tube, at which point it would only take a small disturbance to throw the water off and break the vacuum...

The siphon tube is placed lower then the drain tube, not level. The water drains down to the level of the drain tube if the pump is off. The U siphon being well below the drain tube level would be under water by several inches. Only way to lose the siphon would be if there was bubbles swirling in the specimen box going up the U tube, the outside specimen box sprung a leak lowering the water below the U tube or your sihpon primer loses it's seal.

A few small bubbles in the siphon tube shouldn't break the vacuum until the water level inside the syphon drops below the apex of the bottom inside of the siphon, although as the water level drops the efficiency will go down causing your pump to overtake your overflow and spill over the tank, so remove any air you see.

I think it would be possible to hook up a wet/dry pump to the siphon primer that would pump the air out, and when water started to come out it would shut off because of increased resistence. Set it up to check for resistence periodically like an automatic bilge pump for a boat, but reversed (turning off when it changes from air to water instead of vice versa).