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Old 07-14-2003, 09:56 AM   #1
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Plecostamus (sp) and Black Moor

Hi Fish Lovers

Have had my 10 gal tank since early April now and it is doing real well. However I did lose a mickey mouse platy and my algee eater last week. Dont know WHY? Water tested fine...pH was a little low but not to an extreme and all the other fish are fine.

I replaced the 2 I lost with a baby black moor and a small plecostamus (sucker fish). So now I have 10" of fish in my tank....what I have been told is the limit. 5 zebra danios, 2 mickey mouse platys, the moor and the pleco.

What do I feed the pleco? I never see him eating. I should get him algee wafers? Someone also told me to put a peice of lettuce in there and they like that.

I know nothing much about the black moor. Water temp? (Mine stays around 78). He seems to be doing fine. He looks just like my bug-eyed, pug-faced Boston Terrier.

I plan on moving up to a 30 gallon tank later this summer. I would like to have cichlids OR Oscars.

Any advice or suggestions appreciated.

Nurselady
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:24 AM   #2
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With the plecos, you can feed him algae wafers...usually at night, or whenever you turn the light out as they tend to be shy. I would put in a small piece of zucchini or cucumber in the tank every once in a while as well (Take out the seeds first, and then secure it to the side of the tank). Also, he will eat the algae in the tank.
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:04 AM   #3
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What kind of Pleco do you have? Common plecos grow to 18-24 inches, produce tons of waste and need huge tanks to be housed in. Even a 30 gallon will not be enough for that monster. They do grow slowly though.

The Black Moor is a goldfish essentially and needs to be treated in the same manner with goldfish food. They need a low protein diet that they will not get with tropical fish food. Also theyproduce a ton of waste and can get 4-5 inches long. Not good for a 10 gallon tank, and really shouldn't be kept with tropical fish. 70 degrees is fine but not much hotter.

Cichlids are nice but you would have to be very careful about what kinds you put in with the fish you have. You would need smaller, non-aggressive ones. Oscars are necessarily super aggressive but would try to eat anything smaller than it. Also 30 gallons is not close to big enough for an Oscar.

The 1 inch per gallon rule of thumb takes into account the adult size of the fish, not when you buy it so check into that pleco carefully. Some stay 4-5 inches, other grow massive. Plus they also like drift wood to chew on as well.
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:59 AM   #4
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Ooo yeah; a new larger tank is looming in your future nurselady LOL do keep in mind a 30 may not be big enough for very long...

Goldfish require about 10 gallons EACH. Why? They are one of the dirtiest fish ever (besides getting rather large). Ounce for ounce, goldfish produce more waste then probably 90% of the usual aquarium fish, and can foul their water very quickly. By waste I don't only mean poo; fish waste includes the ammonia that is a result of respiration. They CAN live in somewhat higher temps; www.goldfishinfo.com recommends 74-78f for the more exotic goldfish (you may want to peruse the site for more goldfish specific info).

As for your plec, you need to find out what type it is. tkos isn't kidding when he (she? LOL sorry) says the common plec can get up to 2 feet long. I purchased one that was barely 2 inches long last year for my tank to get rid of algae, but hadn't done any research first (and the store didn't tell me anything). 6 months later it was 4 1/2 inches long and I knew I was in for trouble LOL I looked up the type of plec I had. Turns out it is expected to grow to that 2 foot mark. Ack. I wouldn't have got that kind had I known, but I did and am in the process of purchasing a 55 gallon tank (he/she is now 8 inches long!). In my limited experience it has NOT grown slow (6 inches in a year) and I have had to upgrade tank size a lot quicker then I anticipated.

I also discovered they are the poop machines of the fish world. I have to gravel vac 2-3 times a week to keep up. Between that and your moor you will have to keep on top of those water parameters! Hopefully you have one of the smaller types of plecs (still poo machines, but nothing compared to what comes out of an 8 inch fish LOL) such as the bristlenose. As tkos said, those will only grow to about 4-5 inches or so.

Of course, the only bit of algae in my tank is where he can't get his big fat head LOL he has done an amazing job of keeping my tank walls clear. He gets Hikari Algae Wafers/Hikari Tropical Sinking Wafers 3-4 times a week since there is no visible algae he can get to, sucks up all the leftover food the others are fed, and has a large chunk of driftwood to suck on (most suckermouth catfish require driftwood for digestion; they need the lignin (sp?) in the wood). If you can get a picture, the folks at www.planetcatfish.com will identify it. You can also post it here as we have tons of folks with catfish experience :)

Lastly, do know those 2 fish have VERY long life spans. There are goldies can live up to 20 years, and the record stands at 43 yrs. Plecs will often live to 10-20 will the right conditions.

*edit*
Whoops. Meant to mention the 1" of fish = 1 gallon of water is the most misleading guide to fishkeeping there is. It doesn't take into account the actual size of the fish; by that I mean body mass. 2 inches of neon is very different then 2 inches of oscar. Also, tank surface make a big difference, as oxygen in the water comes from surface agitation not from the bubbles themselves that come from an aerator. So a tall narrow tank of 20 gallons can actually theoretically take less fish then a long low 20 gallon.
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:14 PM   #5
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I'm afraid your ten gallon tank is going to have trouble soon-- as the pleco and moor will quickly outgrow it.

Algae wafers are an ideal food for plecos, as well as fresh veggies: lettuce, cucumber, squash, etc. It's best to feed them in the evening when the lights are off because they are nocturnal.

The "one inch of fish per gallon of water" rule is a terribly inaccurate way to determine how many fish a tank can safely house, yet it's still one of the first 'rules' that get passed on to people new to the hobby. Based on this rule, you could keep one 5-inch goldfish OR five 1-inch neon tetras in a 10 gallon. That goldfish is going to be way too big for the 10 gallon and produce MUCH more waste than the tetras.

A 30 gallon tank will be too small for oscars, but there are several other cichlid species that would be a perfect fit. Kribensis, rainbow, keyhole, acaras, convicts (although they breed like rabbits and will quickly overrun your tank), any of the dwarf species, or if your water is hard and alkaline like mine, shell dwellers from Lake Tanganyika are excellent choices (and awesome fish!)

Good luck with the new tank!
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:15 PM   #6
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Don't be fooled by the "fish only grow as big as their tank" theory either. Goldfish tend to secrete hormones that will stunt their growth but that makes an unhealthy fish. Plecos though are known to be tank busters as they don't really require a lot of swimming room and just seem to grow really big. I know some people buy them and keep them until they get too big for the tank and most fish stores will take fish back (generally for free though sometimes they will give store credit), but why not get fish that you know you can keep for their life span, which as mentioned can be a long time for some fish.

By the way Allivymar, it is He

Sorry if we burst the bubble on your tank but it is probably best for your 30 gallon to really sit down and figure out what type of fish you want in their and then prepare for those particular fish. I like to hang out at the fish store and try to determine what fish are most available and then figure it out from their. There is nothing worse than getting all excited about one type of fish only to realize that no one carries them.
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Old 07-14-2003, 03:26 PM   #7
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well, i am not sure but arent you not supposed to mix tropical and goldfish??? i was always told not too. For one the food that is fed to tropicals makes gasses in goldfish, and can effect their swimming. And one second thought once you think about it, they both put off different kinds of waste. I juss have 2 tanks, one for tropical and one for goldfish.
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:02 PM   #8
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Eww-- I had forgotten about that other 'rule', Tkos.

I actually had an arguement at work last week over that one. A lady I work with has been in the hobby for about two weeks (I've been doing this for almost 18 years) and her LFS 'expert' told her she could keep the 3 oscars in her 30 gallon because fish will only grow to the size of the tank.

The sad thing is she still doesn't believe me. I suppose she will eventually-- if the poor fish live long enough.....
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Old 07-16-2003, 11:50 AM   #9
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well i like oscars and i plan on getting babies for my new 30 gal when i get it. if they start outgrowing then i will go from there.
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Old 07-16-2003, 12:59 PM   #10
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Small juvenile oscars could probably live in a 30 gallon for a couple of months before they'll need to move to a bigger tank. Healthy oscars grow fast!
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Old 07-16-2003, 02:54 PM   #11
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And healthy Oscars will beat the heck out of each other in that small of a tank.
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