Plz help me plan a 450 gallon

[Lonewolfblue]

Heating is going to be your next major issue for a tank that large.

Going on the rule of 5watt a gallon, Most 10 foot tanks I've seen are about 450 - 550 Gallons. Lets take the middle and say 500 x 5 = 2500 watts / 300 = 8 1/3 so Lets be honest 8 heats

Another idea, you don't need 6 or 8 heaters in the tank. If you have 3 or 4 cannisters, you can get inline heaters on the cannisters, eliminating some of the internal heaters, so there's less clutter. Let's say 4 cannisters, 4 inline heaters, and maybe 2 more 300W heaters in parts of the tank not covered by the cannister outputs. Could probably get away with not having any internal heaters, but for safety purposes, if a inline heater goes out, you know you are covered if you have internal heaters as well.

 

[hashbaz]

If I had a tank like that of my own I would put in massive schools of tetras.

But for a show tank for a business, you want to "wow" the customers. 2 great big arowanas (like BrianNY suggested) would "wow" the customers more than anything. Seeing big fish that close up is just cool. In the arowana tank I have seen, the fish were always on the move - slow and very graceful.

A refugium is not terribly useful for a FW IMO. Us FW guys just do water changes instead of mega-complicated filters. All you need is a place for bacteria to grow and something to remove dirt/dust/gunk particles.

Do you guys think this tank could get away with a single wonbrothers 1000W heater? On the wonbothers website, they say a 250gallon tank needs less than 500W to keep it 20º F above room temperature. http://www.wonbrothers.com/ (click "titanium heater" and scroll down to the bottom. If you put in a sump, I think you would probably want more than just a single 1000W heater.

Wouldn't it be funny if he just made up this story to make us all jealous?

 

[Samper]

Hah hashbaz....I'll have plenty of pics as this progresses. I'm actually not that excited about this project since I wanted him to do a reef tank...but alas he isn't gonna pay me to maintain it and doesn't wanna do it himself so....that's that. I'm not knocking FW in any way for the record...i love all of it.

This is not a joke though and I'm very serious when I say that I appreciate all the help thus far.

At first I was thinking about malawi cichlids but I'm leaning more towards the massive schools of peaceful fish as suggested by jasno. I want to research cichlids before I discount the idea but everyone has always warned about their aggressiveness. I've asked my fiance what she would rather see in a tank and she wants large schools of peaceful fish also...but your right about big fish being crowd pleasers also. Tough and I definately need to research my livestock options. I'm liking the idea of a few inline heaters and a few internal ones just in case. Who makes the heater/filter combo?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

If you get cannisters, you can get a Hydor Inline Heater for it. It just goes inline with the output of the filter back to the tank. I think some Eheim cannisters may have a built in heater as well, but are spendy. With the Hydor Inline, depending on the output hose size, you might have to adapt it, as it might be a different size. But I do know the XP3 cannisters are the same size, no adapting needed. I use it myself on my 75G, and works great. Temp is always steady without fluctuations.

Here's the heater:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=32340;category_id=4028

 

[PauloSilva]

i can definatly say im envious of this guy... i would love to set up this tank. however i am partial to malawi cichlids. I have a 20g of guppies, i've had tetras. but nothing is as nice as malawi cichlids. I would do a mix of peacocks, haps, and a few frontosa's. here's a link for ya to check some of these fish.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php

you will be impressed by some of them.

 

[igongora]

Sampler,

maybe this link can give you a few ideas.. but I dont know too much about setting up a tank that big...

http://www.np.edu.sg/lsct/fish_tank/fish_tank.htm

 

[Friendly]

I agree that the Malawi cichlid or South American themes would look absolutely stunning! I would choose the Malawi cichlids just because there would be more colors (great for the kids). Imho, having tons of different small fish in a huge aquarium wouldn’t look as good (especially with out plants) as having larger cichlids swimming around. You would sure need a lot of small fish to fully stock that big of an aquarium.

You could also try cichlids from lake Tanganyika if you’re worried about aggressiveness.

Anyway, gl with your project and I hope everything works out! I also hope you get a chance to share some pics in the future.

 

[kaz]

rainblow fish anyone?

http://www.loumarks.com/rainbowfishcam.html

 

[trotty]

I've seen a few very large display tanks with the schools of fish... nice but the upkeep is OTT. There are always dead and its never a good look! The fluctuations in the tank can be quite severe and need to be monitored all the time IME.

I think the large arrowana's, garr fish etc etc would look great with a rock wall in the center of the tank... This would eliminate most of the plants, upkeep and need for co2 $.
These fish are in your face and always eye opening.

Cant wait to see pics of what you decide in the near future!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Another thing I'd like to throw out there is a peaceful community of Rams. A combo of a bunch of GBR's and Bolivians, along with a few schools of tetras and pencilfish, with a bunch of cories and some BN Plecos, would be cool. And then add a large school of Roseline Sharks. If you want to do some reading, check out my 75G Planted tank thread in my sig. You will like it.

 

[CompMage]

562G (for your 10 foot tank) I've figured out a nice display fish for you that would really make use of a tank that large and plants while nice are not needed....

OSCARS!!!! A tank that big you could fit about 6 large oscars, for a display tank you might want to look into gettin Red-Tiger Oscars, not to hard to find small, with a tank that large you might want to buy more of an adult fish of say 8 - 10 inches of lenght, they grow to aboutr 12-15 pending age and happyness. And as long as you setup some hiding places for them they will stay happy.

just an idea.

 

[kaz]

I say go with aquascaping tank with many veriaty of fish to keep the observer observing and finding new things to look at in the tank.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I say go with aquascaping tank with many veriaty of fish to keep the observer observing and finding new things to look at in the tank.

I like that idea. With several kinds of fish, people would stick around more looking for something new and exciting.

 

[kaz]

I like that idea. With several kinds of fish, people would stick around more looking for something new and exciting.

Thats what I'm talking about

 

[Samper]

I do have some experience with oscars, plecos, guppies and mollies...thats it for fw fish. I really like the ideas you guys have thrown my way so far especially the one by lonewolfblue. Please keep in mind that I won't be maintaining this tank forever and whatever I put in it for the owner needs to be very hardy with a decent lifespan because I think once I quit maintaining it for him it's gonna be a hassle that he hasn't put much thought into. I forsee overfeeding issues unless i can get it through his head exactly what to feed and how much of it......maintaining a tank this size can't be an easy task as far as WCs go and just overall maintenance. You know thinking about all this now I almost don't even want to set this tank up for him because I'm honestly afraid of what'll happen to the inhabitants once I'm out of the picture.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

For a tank that size, might think out an idea of a gravity drain system, where you just open a valve and let 20-30% of the water drain out, then close the valve. It will have to be initially primed of course, as it will go up and over the side of the tank and down towards the floor, which is where the valve will be located. Then for the refill, either a clean hose or python would work well, so you can adjust the faucet temp, start filling, and dechlorinate for the whole tank as it's filling. But the trick will be the drain part. And the only reason I brought up the drain part as with such a large tank, the water bill may greatly increase if using a python to drain a couple hundred gallons.

 

[jasno999]

Oscars are cool. They are eaiser to care for and feed cause you have less of them. Community fish could be a very cool thing. I think the bioload would be abot the same as if you had 2-6 very large fish. However feedign a large group of community fish could be difficult cause too much food and you have water quality issues and too little and not everybody gets to eat.

Your decision. Guess it depends on this guys desires. Think about care but also think about the purpose of the tank. If he wants somethign that is peaceful and draws attention but is something that kids can look at and paretns can look at and say cool then go community.

If you want somehting that is very standoutish and stunning go with a few of the larger fish reccomended. Just remember that some of those larger fish are agressive and you could have fighting. If you don't want that occuring in the tank for people to see then maybe you don't want those fish.

Make the decision based on what the guy handing the cash out wants not what you want. Jsut my suggestion.

 

[Samper]

Ok we're moving along with the planning. He definately doesn't want a planted tank.....doesn't want the hassle or any of that mess. What sort of livestock does that completely eliminate from the list?
Also do you think the two FX5 filters should drain into a sump with a return pump? Seems like I might have problems going that route controlling the inflow and outflow of the water in the sump....know what I mean here?
If they don't drain into the sump and just return to the display how do i move water to and from the sump? I do want one to hold extra equipment aka a few internal heaters and what not so give me some ideas here plz.

 

[lyquidphyre]

Personally, for a large tank like that, I would definatly have a peaceful community tank filled with various schools of fish.

Someone mentioned the more fish you have, the more upkeep with death and what not. You would be surprized how quickly other fish with eat dead fish. So if you have 100 fish, and one dies.. the possibility of them eating it off in a corner when no one is looking is pretty good =o)

I have always wanted to do something like this:
http://membres.lycos.fr/lafuitedebretx/index.html
http://membres.lycos.fr/lafuitedebretx/index.html

and so when I read what you planned to do, I immediatly thought of it.

OH! Also, I wanted to mention, someplaces sell 50lb bags of natural gravel for about $10 which is an AMAZING deal. If you call off beat fish places (not petsmart or petco), they might be able to guide you to where you can get cheap, natural looking gravel.

If you did decide to go the planted route, you could end up spending $500-700 for a really simple, but amazing set up (large C02 canister and high wattage lights) which would make keeping it planted pretty simple. Then you could sell the trimmings *nod*

As far as fish, I would have something at all levels-
3-4 different school of large, colorful tetras
1-2 large schools of cories
a huge school of hatchets
5+ angel fish
some rams
a pleco or two (different species)
maybe a red-tailed black shark

I agree with who ever said "keep them looking to see what else they can find"

Good luck!

 

[Friendly]

Ok we're moving along with the planning. He definately doesn't want a planted tank.....doesn't want the hassle or any of that mess. What sort of livestock does that completely eliminate from the list?

There are a few species of tetras that enjoy being in a planted tank so that they can hide in the thick plant growth when they are frightened. Sometimes if you are reading a fish profile it will mention if it likes to be in a planted tank.

Some of the fish mentioned in this thread are very sensitive to water conditions (especially the smaller ones). I doubt you would want lots of small dead fish in the tank. I also highly doubt your boss can handle or even wants to handle these kinds of fish.

Since you won't be having any plants in the tank, I think a school of silver dollars would be one good choice. Silver dollars are very hardy fish that aren’t fussy about the quality of the water. So if your boss accidentally over feeds or forgets to do a water change, the silver dollars won’t mind it that much. It's also a great community fish.