possible recycling after ich treatment...

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The whole point in this hobby is to have fun doing it. It sucks when something like this happens but we learn from our mistakes. For me taking care of my tanks is quite relaxing. All you need is to do your research first and make sure you know what you are getting into.
 
Hello saa, it looks like you are just sort of teetering on understanding the nitrogen cycle. It's complicated and if you don't know about it, you may want to brush it off.

Here's the absolute minimum you need to know to keep fish in good condition:
Ammonia and Nitrites below 0.25
Nitrate below 40
You can do a water change at any time to reduce the amount of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in the water. A 50% water change will reduce the toxins by 50%.

If you do a little bit of research, you will find it clear that ammonia and nitrite really DO harm fish. Their gills turn red because they are inflamed (this is something you can see with your naked eyes), which scars them and makes the respiration process much more difficult for the fish's lifetime. Even if your fish survive this process, their longevity is reduced and at some point they will die prematurely.

To expand on the nitrogen cycle:

Ammonia (a highly toxic substance - we use it to kill bacteria and sanitize things in cleaning products like Windex) is one chemical result of fish poop. There are other ways to add ammonia to the tank - this is called fishless cycling. However, since you have fish, this option is out the window so I won't dwell on it too much.

Ammonia is how fish poop first presents itself in our water. Bacteria eventually colonize that eat ammonia, and turn it into nitrite. This is equally toxic. Soon, a second bacterial colony forms that eats nitrite and turns it into nitrate - this is something that can build up as it is only toxic at high levels (like 40-60ppm). We remove the nitrate by doing a water change, and keep our aquarium systems stable.

These bacteria live on your gravel and in your filter. This is why, once your tank is cycled, you don't need to "re-cycle" unless you let your gravel or filter dry out, or do something that kills the bacteria. This includes using water with chlorine in it, or using ich medication, unfortunately.

However, if you keep your bacteria healthy, you will never need to "re-cycle" no matter how much water your change. So with a little patience, you can create a stable, healthy system for your fish.

You are right, fish do introduce ammonia to the water, which is toxic to them. You can just go with distilled water - but you would need to change 50-90% of that water (depending on tank size and fish you have) every day if you don't cycle the tank, and you want the ammonia and nitrite levels to stay safe. If you have an established nitrogen cycle, the maintenance level really goes down :D This is because the "cycling" process introduces enough bacteria that they can process the fish poop at the same rate the fish produce it!

I hope this is helpful. I know it all seems confusing and a lot more work than fishkeeping did before you knew about the cycle - but we are speaking from experience and tried & true methods. The fish keeping world has changed a lot in even the past 4 years or so (and changed radically in the last 10 years!), so I'm not surprised your tank-experienced family hasn't heard about it.

In your family's old tanks, the fish probably "hard-cycled" the tank - just got dumped in and slowly adapted to the ammonia and nitrite. They survived, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had die-offs early in the tank, or unexplained deaths down the line. I would chalk this up to ammonia or nitrite related stress, and the permanent effect they have on fish and their immune systems.

The reason some fish survived is that they were able to tough out the bad water conditions until the bacteria could colonize - so even in tanks you didn't purposefully cycle, the process still happened.

So as you can see, the "cycle" will happen whether you want it to or not. It's simply a question of how much stress you want to put your fish though.

Nobody can make you do these things for your fish - it's totally up to you and we aren't going to come yell at you :lol: - we are just advising you how to give your fish the best care that you can.

All that said, good luck! My advice is not to avoid the research, but to try to quickly get the most important knowledge.
 
+1 for Taylor, well said.

Also, ich is NOT always present like the flu, it cannot live without a host.

The meds for sure killed any good bacteria you may have had. There are only 2 meds I know of that won't hurt the biological filter, and they don't treat ich.

I had to do a fish in cycle too, and did a 50-70% pwc every single day for 4 weeks. After that, I was able to use the bacteria from my established tank to cycle my new tanks faster.

Remember that the only time you can kill the ich is in it free swimming stage, and just because you don't see it on you fish doesn't mean it's not present. Make sure you use the full dose of meds. :)

The reason fish in the wild don't get ammonia poisoning is because the water volume is MUCH bigger than the tanks we have at home, and there is usually a constant water exchange, by rain or moving water (i.e creek or river).

Here is an article on ammonia poisoning from the University of Florida:
FA16/FA031: Ammonia in Aquatic Systems
 
Its starting to make more sense. But, since I have been giving the meds for the past 4 days (today is my last day, day 5), why would my tank be foggy white if its not cycling? The meds maybe?
As for doing water changes, I really don't mind doing it, and I've actually been doing it since I got the tank and since I got the Ich scare...every day. Thankfully my tank is on the bar above the kitchen sink lol it makes it easy to dump the old water out that's for sure...
Thankfully I've never seen a fish with red gills before. That would freak me out. And honestly, like I said before, I had never lost a fish until now...not even when I was younger (and no, my mom wasnt replacing them when I wasnt watching... she wasnt that nice. The tank was my responsibility).

So, in a nutshell, here is my situation now...

In the community tank I have 5 fish total (2 mollies, a guppy, an albino cory cat, and a CAE)
To feed the CAE, I purchased some Algae Wafers and have been feeding him those at night for the past 4 days.
As far as water changes, when I first setup the tank 4 weeks ago I did 25-35% partials. When the Ich took over, I did 50% until the Ich killed 6 of my fish and others were floating so I did a 90% water change and started meds....which thankfully has saved their lives. That same day, I replaced the undergravel filter with a new Whisper EX30 filter. It has a built in bio-scrubber that cant be removed. Its also the same day I removed EVERYTHING from inside the tank and boiled it and laid it out to dry.
Two days ago the water was becoming foggy again.
Today I returned the rocks and fake plants (they were dried upon entering the water).
I hope that clarifies a little better this whole 4 week process.

I have one fish, a black molly, who is in a separate container because he doesnt have ich. Or at least, he hasnt shown it in the past few weeks. I assume that if he caught it, he would have shown it like the rest of them did. In spite of the lack of symptoms, I have been treating him as well.I wanted to point that out.

So, two questions...

1. Since my tank has been through so much, how long do you think it will take for it to cycle at this point?
2. When should I return the black molly to the tank? I assume just when its cycled...
 
I also want to point out, the reason I think my tank is re-cycling is because everything is new... the entire filtration system is new (not just the filter inside the system, the whole thing), the rocks are like new, and the plants are like new.
 
The albino cory cat will be a lot happier with buddies. Once you get this all straightened out. Cories do best in groups of 6-8 at least. If I were you I would treat the molly as well because they can have ich before you see it. And if it was in the tank with the rest of them, chances are, it has it as well.
 
aquariums will always be "cycling." the nitrogen cycle is an ongoing ever lasting kind of thing, so yes, you are actually cycling right now. the reason you need to "cycle" your tank in advance of adding fish (although some do it with) is because the nitrogen cycle has yet to "complete" within the tank because when newly set up there has yet to be an ammonia source. once the water has some sort of ammonia in it, your cycle begins and never ends. the reason people say your cycle will "end" is because there are enough bacteria built up in the tank to support life i.e. change ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates (basically) HTH
 
I still think the meds killed all of your good bacteria, and you will have to start over. :(
The whiteness could be air bubbles too, but I am not sure.
What is the med you are using?
 
+1 for Taylor, well said.

Also, ich is NOT always present like the flu, it cannot live without a host.


Remember that the only time you can kill the ich is in it free swimming stage, and just because you don't see it on you fish doesn't mean it's not present. Make sure you use the full dose of meds. :)

So which is it? is it free swimming or is it not able to live without a host?

I was responding to OP blaming the last fish. It is around, it isn't just transferred from sick fish to sick fish. If that were the case. It would disappear rather quickly. So it is not always around, but often. honestly I have never QTd a fish. Probably asking for trouble but the wife has QTd me from MTS. :hugs:
 
Ich is free swimming after the cyst bursts, if it does not find a host, it dies. Ich cannot live in an aquarium without a host.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing, or do you really not know?
 
Well, it didn't really make sense, and there are so many conflicting reports. In the end all I do is jack up the temp. problem solved.

I would never argue with you. :angel:
 
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