Recommended: Freshwater Trace Element Cocktails

[krystian]

Hello,

I have a freshwater aquarium where, in a couple of months, I am planning on adding to my aquarium a (coil) denitrifaction system. My hope is to keep a closed freshwater aquarium system, so please adjust responses accordingly.

In my reading of the subject, I have read mention that aquarists weekly inject trace element cocktails into their aquarium to supplement the low minerals in their water.

I ask: What trace element cocktails do members of the FreshWater community suggest to complement the operation of denitrification system?

Please provide figures of how much of each element do you add every week (please provide figures in "per gallon" amounts) to where you feel it is suitable to maintain optimal utility of aquarium water.

If there are any pre-packaged products (like some which come in a 5 oz bottles or something) to fulfill this need, I would be indebted to you mentioning them. I'd hate having to purchase multiple liquids and making my own cocktails, as that may take lots of space.

Actually, I've been considering: Acquiring Centrum (daily vitamin supplement for humans) in liquid form and using the supply sparingly to supplement the aquarium. Please weigh in with your thoughts?

Regardless, please offer your thoughts and consideration of the above.

Regards,
Krystian.

 

[greenmaji]

The coil denitratior shouldnt remove much in the way of minerals (I am aware of how they operate, Ive looked into them). Reef systems are an entirely different ballgame as far as minerals are concerned. Are you talking about trying to maintain a closed system, in other words no water changes? I doubt you will find anyone here that can help you with replacing electorlites (elemental salts), few if any of the members have run such a fresh water system from what Ive read. (you did post something a while back about using reef technologies on FW tanks right?)
sounds like you your looking to inject the salts that are in gatorade (joke)
If you plan on doing some water changes I wouldnt worry too much about this..
you still havnt figured out a way of removing DOC's, heavy metals and dissolved proteins so water changes are still adviseable.. ATS does a more complete job in therory then the coil denitrator IMO and has been tested to go without water changes for 1 year by another member (the harmfull elements are either uptook by the algae or cling to it so when the algae is scrapped weekly to bi-weekly the wastes are completly removed from the system)
My ATS thread

 

[tetrin]

Krystian,
my advice would be not to make this hobby more complicated than it already is. i believe that maintaining certain levels of trace elements in water isn't absolutely necessary for fish. intake of any of these elements or vitamins occur through food, which is sufficiently enriched. in case you are not satisfied with a particular brand, supplement their diet with a number of brands.

you need to supplement them with vitamins (like liquid multivitamins for birds ) only if you make the food yourself and feed it as a sole food to your fish. a very good example would be the european shrimp mix.

anyway, for your peace of mind, you can definitely do that, but i don't see how its gong to be assimilated by the fish (does osmosis allow transfer of non-electrolytic molecules?). its like spaying vitamins in the air and asking humans to inhale it ...just kidding....

 

[krystian]

you still havnt figured out a way of removing DOC's, heavy metals and dissolved proteins so water changes are still adviseable..

Thanks for responding!

I am actually in the boat of people who try to seek ways to never have to do water changes. I kind of have an interest in hydroponics as of late (especially supplementing plant needs without soil), so naturally my interest has manifested itself into doing the same with aquariums.

How do you suggest removing DOC's, heavy metals and dissolved proteins from water? I know this probably 3 topics in one, but as for protein and exoskeletons I plan to use scavengers and snails.

I don't have any idea about getting rid of heavy metals though. Without sounding silly: a really slow (1 drop/minute) r/o filter or plants?

As for DOC's, don't scavenger and bottom feeders pick that up?


Good post. Great thinking. =)

BTW: I did post about using reef technologies for FW tanks. I'm not really going to use salt water/habitats with my FW tank, just hoping to borrow and broaden the scope of inventions designed for salt water tanks as much as possible and useful.

 

[greenmaji]

I mistook you for a different member.. similar questions thats all.. and sw/reef technologies has nothing to do with keeping the same inhabitants.. its using the same filtering technologies like the coil denitrator and ATS...
by the way..
I think ATS solves most if not all the problems.. though the algae's uptake of the metals, all forms of nitrogen, phosphate and all other plant nutrients. and the adhering of the dissolved proteins to the algae bed itself.. as far as DOC's are concerned a prefilter(like a sponge) and UV sterilizer will take care of that.. The Algal Turf Scrubber seems to be a ace in the hole so to speak (with the addition of UV).. if you have any questions about ATS give us a post on my thread.

 

[krystian]

Are you talking about trying to maintain a closed system, in other words no water changes? I doubt you will find anyone here that can help you with replacing electorlites (elemental salts), few if any of the members have run such a fresh water system from what Ive read. (you did post something a while back about using reef technologies on FW tanks right?)
sounds like you your looking to inject the salts that are in gatorade (joke)

Yes, closed aquarium system. I didn't know that's what the methodology was for no water changes- so: thank you. I'll adopt the changes into my main post too, should anyone else read it.

Electrolite supplements? Awesome. I can't wait for my fish to be an athlete.

Also, tetrin, knowing that I'm interested in maintaining a closed system, does this change the content of your earlier post where you advocate no trace element cocktails are necessary as they are often provided through fish food?

I've read this great thread about Denitrators and many like it before making this post.

Of particular reference are what is said about trace element supplements, I reference the relevant posts with timestamps:

29-09-2004 10:28 PM
"Evaporation loss of water is refill by the top-up reservoir via the Kalkwasser reactor by the dosing pump to replace the loss calcium."

Apparently, calcium supplementation is necessary/inevitable.

28-09-2004 07:10 AM
"Some of the trace elements are Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Potassium, Copper, Zinc, etc are found in water which the fish obtain nutrients for growth."

And on the topic of supplying these elements, nim75sq states he adds them through a process of weekly supplementation:

28-09-2004 09:45 AM
All of those mentioned and more which didn't mention ....

By adding liquid trace element to your tank on a weekly basis ...

I'd post to that thread, but the thread hasn't been active in a year so I might not get the results I was looking for, plus I want a "breath of fresh air" new perspective on this topic. I'll post there just for the heck of it anyhow, to compare answers between communities.

 

[greenmaji]

I dont think that dissoved minerals in the water coelom have anything to do with fish growth, it seems to be a fallacy in logic to me.. has there been a study suggesting that these minerals are absorbed from the water by fish only systems? If so I would like to see it. (I plan on building a system that will end up running all nutrients to nothing in no time, this filtration has been used in the past with no ill effects on the fish so I would assume that would be an argument in the opposite direction, that these minerals are not nessisary)

 

[krystian]

... it seems to be a fallacy in logic to me.. has there been a study suggesting that these minerals are absorbed from the water by fish only systems? If so I would like to see it. (I plan on building a system that will end up running all nutrients to nothing in no time, this filtration has been used in the past with no ill effects on the fish so I would assume that would be an argument in the opposite direction, that these minerals are not nessisary)

I don't know, that's why I'm asking around and trying to get the facts. =)

 

[greenmaji]

If someone is able to produse a study that says that fish need these trace minerals, in the water not food, for any reason at all (heath, growth any reason) could you post that information over here?

 

[krystian]

Absolutely, I'd like to know for myself too.

Before I got into denitrification so heavily, I read Eric Borneman's articles on the state of the nitrate eradicating past time.

I strongly recommend his articles. They are laced with tons of sources as he himself, seems to be involved in disseration study on aquarium biology related topics. It's possible your question is answered there.

The Old Becomes New, Yet Again: Sandbeds and Vodka by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.htm

The Old Becomes New, Yet Again: Sandbeds and Vodka - Part II by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/eb/feature/index.htm