restarted tank - need more help!

[Rocket Girl]

Hi. I don't know if you all remember but I posted awhile ago about my tank dilemmas. General consensus was to strip it all down and start over. So that's what I did. New EVERYTHING.
I restarted with one bristlenose pleco and one dwarf rainbow in there to cycle the tank. My water initially was pH 7.0 and kH 60 mg/dL. My book says kH of 60 is moderate and associated with low pH. I am using tap water with dechlorinator now mixed with RO water 50:50. The tank has been going 6 days now. I retested my water today and I could not believe it. My pH is now 8.0 again!!!!!!!!!! I thought I had got rid of that!!!!!!!!! Why does my water constantly increase in pH no matter what I do?? I am so pissed off. The other parameters are fine. KH is still 60 and no ammonia, nitrite or nitrates.

What do I do??? I don't know what to do anymore.

 

[FishLover14]

Peat in the filter often softens the water. Also try using All R.O. unit water.

HTH

JMHO

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I'm not farmiliar with your previous posts so you may want to give some more info. What kind of decor do you have in the tank? What kind of dechlorinator are you using (brand and name)?

 

[Rocket Girl]

I am not going to use all RO water. I will quit before I do that. Many people that live right beside me manage to have fish tanks with tap water. Why can't I?
I started a 20 gal two years ago. pH was always high and water very hard. I moved to where I live now and decided to restart the tank as I could never keep fish alive. They would eventually all waste away. So I posted here and they said start over.

What I want to know is WHY my pH would go UP????????????? My test kit says with my hardness you should have low pH. Which I would finally like. How can pH swing up in one week? I have basic decor in the tank. All from the lfs and for aquariums. Gravel, 3 plastic plants, a rock of some sort. I can't remember the dechlorinator name, it's the brand that comes in the Hagen tanks. I also on advice from here added a bio-something to the filter along with the sponge and charcoal to grow bacteria on.

What should I do? Try to lower the pH? How? Do I do a major water change, will that even lower the pH? In past experience once it is high there ain't nothing you can do to bring it down. Do I try the pH adjuster chemical? And even if I manage to lower it, won't it just go up again? Hard to say, I don't know what's causing it.

I have two very bad years of luck with this hobby. All I want is a tank of fish that will live. I don't even care what kind they are anymore. Living and breathing would be alright at this point. Sorry to whine but I am beyond frustration. :x :x

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Depending on the "rock of some sort" that you have in your tank, it could be raising your pH. Limestone will raise it. Try taking the rock out and putting in a piece of driftwood in its place. A real piece, not the fake ones. Do not use Dechlorinator that alters the pH. It will cause swings. Also, as FishLover suggested, peat in your filter will soften the water.

 

[mattrox]

Your pH will go up if your water supply has excess dissloved carbon dioxide in it. As this off gasses over time the pH will increase. Try doing water changes after letting the water sit (and perhaps throw an air stone in to agitate). A ph of 8 isn't neceserily bad. There are many discus keepers who have pH 8 tap water and have very happy fish. It is important to have a stable pH. If it is stable at 8 don't worry too much.

Don't use chemicals. I'd ask the lfs what their tanks are. Get them to test a sample of their water. Chances are they just go with the flow.

If you can, get a hold of some acid. Hydrochloric or phosporic acid. Put a drop or two on the rock and test a sample of gravel. If they fizz when the acid is added, then that is the cause.

Test two, get tap water in a cup. Let it stand 24 hours and then test the pH.

If you have a high pH and are worried about fish surviving, try african cichlids. There are some cool smaller fish from Lake Tanginika (sp).

 

[oldshell4481]

wanna fish that wont die?? try a betta.

 

[verucaproduce]

Forgive me because I missed what happened with your previous tank setup...

What size tank do you have? Do you have a specific fish that you are trying to keep?

I share your pain. I know that my water has a very high ph and I have given up trying to do anything about it. (Live a few miles away from a limestone quarry...hehe) I have tried peat in the filter, but you have to replace it quite often. I second the suggestion to remove the rock and add a piece of driftwood to see if that helps.

Have you thought about keeping cichlids? Or have you had bad luck with them also. Don't give up...it can be frustrating, but you will get control over it!!!!

 

[Rocket Girl]

My tank is too small for cichlids. It is a 20 gal.

I removed the rock yesterday and did a massive water change. The pH dropped after that to 7.6 or so. I added driftwood.

This morning I retested and it's back up to 8.0.

I can't have an aquarium with massive pH swings like this! I need to know WHY it's going up. Does anybody know? The tap water is 7.0. How does pH rise AFTER you put the water in the tank???????????

This makes no sense.

 

[verucaproduce]

Sorry, I am not the best person to help you with WHY your ph is changing, but your tank isn't too small for cichlids. You could try a shell dweller in there. http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/shellweb/shell_intro.htm

I don't know what your 'likes' are so these might not fit your tastes. Just a friendly suggestion. :?

 

[mattrox]

Have you tested the tap water after it has been sitting aroung for 24 hours? It really sounds like a dissolved CO2 issue.

The only other thing I can think of is that if phosphates or sulfates have been added to the watter supply (perhaps as part of a municipal softening program) they would tend to cause the pH to be higher. Carbonates are not the only buffer in the alkaline region. eg Na2SO4 or K3PO4 can have this effect.

Test any rocks and gravel with a (dilute) strong acid. You need to eliminate this as a cause otherwise the cause can only be guessed.

 

[An t-iasg]

I agree with mattrox -- if you have removed the rock and you're still getting a high pH swing, test the gravel. Put some tap water and gravel in a glass. Test the pH, and then let the glass sit for about 24 hours and test the pH again.

Where did you get the gravel? Sometimes, places like the Home Depot will have cheap, pretty gravel, but it may not be the best for an aquarium. I like the Estes brand of gravel, found at most lfs.

So, try the pH test, and if you can find some acid like mattrox suggested, that would be a good indicator also if the rocks and gravel are altering your pH.

 

[Rocket Girl]

Okay - well I did all the tests and indeed just a glass of tap water left alone will rise to 8.0 overnight. A whole pH unit. So I think it must be the dissolved CO2 issue.

I think I will just "go with the flow" as suggested. However, I have a question - if everytime I do a partial water change the pH drops and then rises the next day - is this not bad for the fish? As someone said before pH swings are worse than high pH. Should I let my water sit overnight before I do a water change? Is it still necessary to use chloramines?

I live in a fairly small community, I don't have alot of options for fish choices nearby. I can get most of the common ones. I haven't seen any Lake Tanganyika fishes that I know of - they must be less common? I have seen the South American cichlids, I quite like the Blue Rams but I doubt they'd live in this water??

 

[An t-iasg]

My problem is the opposite -- my pH out of the tap is 8.2 and then it falls overnight to 7.8, so I don't have experience with rising pH values.

But it's a good idea to let water sit 8-12 hours, or however long it took to rise to 8.0. I pour my water on Saturday and do my water changes sometime Sunday evening. I would still use a dechlorinator, and most of them remove chloramines as well. Is that what you meant -- is it still necessary to remove chloramines? You could treat some tap water with a chlorine remover only, and if it shows a small amount of ammonia, then you have chloramines in your water. But I would just use a chloramine remover. I use both Novaqua and Amquel. Novaqua removes chlorine and adds some beneficial electrolytes. Amquel removes chloramines.

When your tank is established and stable, doing only a partial water change shouldn't make the pH swing. How big is your tank? Bigger tanks (larger volumes of water) are more stable than smaller tanks. But given that your tap water shows such a large swing, I would definitely let it sit first, before using it for a water change.

 

[mattrox]

I agree, most fish will live in the pH 8 as long as it does not fluctuate. Prepare your water change water in advance. I am sure this will have a marked improvement in the health of your fish.