Seachem Cichlid Salt instead of R.O. Right

[DSenn]

Sorry about the Cicklid/Cichlid typo in the title...

Recently, I posted a thread about R.O. Right and how it does not show up on test kits. I have tested R.O. Right with three different, up to date test kits and each time I test there is no general hardness whatsoever. Tonight I took a sample of R.O. water mixed with a large amount of R.O. Right to a reputable pet store associate, and to his dismay, he could not give an answer to why R.O. Right does not show up on test kits.

I also stated in the other R.O. Right post that the more R.O. Right added to the water, the higher the KH goes. Yes, I said KH, not GH, so apparently there is a some alkalinity there, even though the product is SUPPOSED to raise GH. I am to the point of calling Kent to complain.

But anywho, my questions are this: can anyone explain why R.O. Right does not show up on test kits? Has anyone had similar experiences? It's not to say that R.O. Right is NOT adding GH, but how would one know if it doesn't test?

Also, instead of using R.O. Right, I have tried the Seachem Cichlid Lake Salt in a very small amount. This product DOES show up on hardness test kits, fortunately. Is the lake salt a decent substitute for the R.O. Right? They are both adding GH, so is there really any difference?

 

[OasisKeeper]

Also, instead of using R.O. Right, I have tried the Seachem Cichlid Lake Salt in a very small amount. This product DOES show up on hardness test kits, fortunately. Is the lake salt a decent substitute for the R.O. Right? They are both adding GH, so is there really any difference?

You are trying to raise Gh and leave Kh alone, yes? One thing I like about Seachem is they tell you what is in their products. You can find a guaranteed analysis and an ingredent list here .

Yes this will work, but you are also adding 'salt' (see all of those 'chloride's ?). Why not use the Seachem product made to do what you want: Equalibrium (note the analysis and ingredient list also ). Or use the Rex Grigg product Purrbox mentions elsewhere.

 

[rkilling1]

I agree with OasisKeeper on the Cichlid salt. IMO, it contains a lot of 'salt' and plants generally don't do very will with salt.

 

[DSenn]

Yes, I am trying to raise GH and keep KH alone due to the fact my tap water GH has dropped recently. I try to keep my KH low (about 2-3 degrees) for a pH of 7.2-7.4 since I have no CO2 to lower it further. Anywho, I tried to get Equilibrium at the pet store and they, of course, were out of it. My problem with using Equilibrium is that I am afraid it will do the same as R.O. Right and not register on my test kit. I already have R.O. Right and that is 'made to do what I want' and it doesn't show up at all. The Equilibrium is obviously worth a try though and maybe I can use the Cichlid salts until I can get some.

Also, this is not a plant tank. This is a simple community tank with Tetras and Dwarf Gouramis. Will the salts be harmful to the fish? When I do my plant tank, 1dGH will be all I want anyway, so I won't be trying to raise it too much.

I also only added a quarter teaspoon for 5 gallons when I added the Cichlid Salt last night, which seems like a very small amount. It raised the GH a few degrees.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[OasisKeeper]

I remain moderately curious. Please read this five year old thread and tell me if, in fact, the label on the product says anything about using TDS for measurments. Thanks

 

[DSenn]

Yeah, I've read that thread before, and I know what the instructions say. It says that your TDS is ''better measured electronically or by conductivity meter.'' BETTER measured. It does NOT say, however, that you cannot use a regular test kit to measure. It also says that "GH test kits usually only measure Calcium and Magnesium content and are a poor substite." Yet again, it does not say to use a conductivity meter exclusively. So, whoever uses R.O. Right is supposed to buy a conductivity meter??? Yeah right. I would not recommend R.O. Right to ANYONE if you need a meter to read it.

 

[OasisKeeper]

Yeah, I've read that thread before, and I know what the instructions say.

Thats nice. I certainly didn't know that. I doubt many others here did either.

What can we surmise from this?

Well, mostly that RO Right does not add Ca or Mg ions in proportions most of us would associate with increasing general hardness.

What to do? Hmm..

Choice #1: Accept TDS as a measurement in place of Gh. A lot of 'water' folk might disagree with this approach since TDS includes salts that many of us don't want in our aquariums.

Choice #2: Move on and buy a different product to increase your Gh.

Choice #3: Just continue to rage against the product and the results and don't do anything to improve the water conditions in your aquarium.

Yep, number 3 sounds like the ticket.

 

[DSenn]

Oh, I am fully prepared to move on and get something different, and I have not yet begun to rage. I am curious as to whether Equilibrium by Seachem will show up on the kits. So do you think that me using the Cichlid Salts in small amounts will harm my fish? Like I said, this isn't a plant tank, so there are also no plants to be affected by the salts.

 

[OasisKeeper]

Oh, I am fully prepared to move on and get something different. I am curious as to whether Equilibrium by Seachem will show up on the kits. So do you think that me using the Cichlid Salts in small amounts will harm my fish? Like I said, this isn't a plant tank, so there are also no plants to be affected by the salts.

No, I don't think the Cichlid salts will effect your fish as long as they are used in small amounts.

I'll give you another, less expensive option too, as long as you are just trying to tweak the last little bit of Gh into your water and not going to try to 'build' water without using a fair portion of tap. Go to the drug store and buy the smallest box of Epson Salts you can find. Should be just over a buck or so. That is hydrated MgSO4, although not completely pure. This will add to Gh and TDS but not Kh and no chlorides. If you have a gram scale that reads in tenths or hundreths it would be helpful. You can find dosing weights over on the Krib in the fertilizer section.

 

[DSenn]

Well, right now I only have 1dGH because my tap water dropped down considerably. When I mixed the Cichlid Salts, it bumped it from 1 to 4 degrees (and 3-4 degrees is just fine with me). I only mixed a quarter teaspoon too, so it really doesn't take much.

I have two more questions...what exactly makes up TDS? Also, I thought that GH was the salts of magnesium and calcium. When I add the Cichlid salts, aren't I just adding the salts of magnesium and calcium?

 

[OasisKeeper]

I have two more questions...what exactly makes up TDS?

If its solid to start with and you can put it into a glass of water and get it to dissolve, that means it been broken down into ions, and becomes part of TDS. So basically everything in the water, organic or inorganic. See the wiki article for more.

Also, I thought that GH was the salts of magnesium and calcium.

By most definitions and testing means, the ions of Ca and Mg, that is correct. But I am not sure if there is an officially recognized standard definition. So that gives room for folks to slide and call Gh and TDS equivalent.

When I add the Cichlid salts, aren't I just adding the salts of magnesium and calcium?

Yep, but you are adding the chloride salts of these metals instead of sulfates. What is confusing here is that salt has two meanings. Our common meaning like table salt (sodium chloride) and a chemical meaning. Salts of chloride (chemical meaning) gives you the chloride ions too. Chloride is what gives us that salt taste and helps define water we call Brackish. Some fish tolerate brackish water and others not so well. See Brackish water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DSenn]

So Total Disolved Solids, I would assume, includes everything that makes up your GH, everything that makes up your KH and everything else that is dissolved but does not fit into those two categories?

So using the Seachem Cichlid salt is fine EXCEPT that I am adding chloride salts instead of sulfate salts. Is it better to use sulfate salts? And this may sound super stupid, but what is chloride exactly? Is it related to chlorine? Am I adding chlorine by using the Cichlid Salt? God I am a pain in the a$$ LOL.

 

[OasisKeeper]

So using the Seachem Cichlid salt is fine EXCEPT that I am adding chloride salts instead of sulfate salts. Is it better to use sulfate salts? And this may sound super stupid, but what is chloride exactly? Is it related to chlorine? Am I adding chlorine by using the Cichlid Salt? God I am a pain in the a$$ LOL.

Better? As you know, that depends on your goals.

I'd say for keeping a typical community of aquarium fish, it makes absolutely no difference at all. If you are trying to breed fish whose natural habitat is from tropical freshwater streams, then sulfates would be closer to the natural water. If you are trying to breed rift lake cichlids, then the chlorides might be better and closer to the natural water. Then you can get into the whole question of whether duplicating natural waters is worth any effort at all, since nearly all of our freshwater aquarium fish are tank raised and bred.

I think our chemistry lessons are over for now. I also think that this discussion is a good example of why digging too deeply into water chemistry is not very productive for the average aquarium keeper.

 

[jsoong]

but what is chloride exactly? Is it related to chlorine? Am I adding chlorine by using the Cichlid Salt?

One last chemistry lesson ....

Chlorine is an element found in nature (like oxygen, carbon, etc.). It is a reactive element, so does not exist on its own. Chlorine on its own reacts with itself, forming Cl2 <ie 2 chlorines joined together>. This is normally a gas & is poisonous. It is used as a disinfectant in water .... being poisonous, it kills germs .... and being reactive, also binds to various organic molecules. Because chlorine is poisonous, you need to neutralize it in water before adding it to your tank <by using dechlorinators.>

Chlorine can also react with other elements. When it reacts with Sodium (Na), it forms NaCl ... Sodium chloride or common salt. In this reaction, the chlorine gains an electron. This is indicated by adding a "-" to the symbol .... ie Cl-. Cl- is called Chloride. < The electron came from the Sodium. Since it lost an electron, it became positively charged. This is indicated by Na+ .... but is still called Sodium! Any element that has an excess or deficit of electrons are charged, and are called ions.>

Because the addition of the electron fills its outer most electron shell, chloride is very much less reactive compared to chlorine. This additional electron completely changes the element's property. Chloride is not poisonous ... in fact it is essential to life.

OK - class dismissed!

<PS - Knowing all this adds little to your fish keeping, but you really needs to know a lot of chemistry to muck with your water sucessfully.>

 

[DSenn]

You guys are so silly. And OasisKeeper, who said I'm AVERAGE???! LOL.