second third fourth opinions needed!!!

[egironda]

In August, right before finding this website, I set up a 90 gallon FW tank. It has a Fluval 404, underwater heater (set @ 80 deg F), and 2 airstones & a bubble wall. We treated with BioSpira (thanks to this group) and started with 1 male and 2 female gold barbs and also 1 male and 2 female cherry barbs. A week later we added 1 male and 2 female gold barbs and also 1 male and 2 female cherry barbs, bringing the total to 6 and 6, also adding 1 male and 1 female each of black dalmatian mollies and white dalmatian mollies. They all seemed to love the expanse of the 90 gal tank, swimming all over the place, especially at feeding times. Everything was going smoothly, with 20 gallon water changes every other monday, and the water parameters: nh3 0, Ites 0, Ates around 10, and ph of 7.4. Just in time for the holidays, when we were looking to expand the 'family' with some more adoptions, it all went you know where in a handbasket!

Since Thanksgiving, we've lost both black dalmatian mollies, the female white dalmatian molly, all 6 of our gold barbs, and 2 of the 6 cherry barbs (we have 1 male and 3 females, he seems happy!) one at a time, initially 3 in the first week. We still don't know what has been causing the deaths, but have so far treated the main (90 gal FW) tank with Paragon II, after a week of adding MelaFix to that tank, while quarantining the individual sick fish in the 10 gal using Naladin and MelaFix. Now the 5 remaining fish are in the 10 gal being treated with Maracyn-two. It's a LOT cheaper to treat 10 gallons rather than 90!

All of the fish were acting sluggish, not eating, etc. while in the main tank. As soon as the net hit the water to get them out, they started swimming like Olympic stars. Now, they are swimming all over the little
10 gallon tank, eating everything that they can find. And making quite a mess, to the point that I cut the carbon media out of a brand new Penguin mini HOB filter so that I'd have the mechanical filtration for solids, without the chemical filtration to kill off the meds. That and 5 gallon water changes nightly to keep the ammonia from building up. The fish seem to be ok, we haven't lost any more since the hospital tank was set up, but I'm trying to figure out what was killing them.

 

[Allivymar]

Aw I'm sorry bout the fish egironda; that sucks

I have to admit I'm suspicious; you had about 3 1/2 months of healthy fish with what seems to be no additions, hence no introduction to disease. Were there ANY changes prior to the illness? A new piece of equipment, new plants, substrate? Did the water treatment plant make any changes you know of? Other then sluggishness and lack of appetite, were there any other signs of disease? I'm skeptical of disease in this case and rather suspect a water contaminant issue. Did you happen to notice an odor somewhat like rotten eggs coming from the tank?

 

[egironda]

The fish began acting wierd about 2 days after we tried to swith their food from TetraColor tropical flakes to ColorBits, which they didn't like and then we tried freeze dired plankton (they didn't care for them either so we scooped the flakes out), just a few of each. I did add a penguin mini (hob filter) with the intent of using it for the quarantine tank after it was seeded, but didn't add it until after the fish beagn deteriorating, so it still doesn't have a carbon element or the biowheel. It is currently working in the hospital tank to filter out solid waste, as I cut the plastic on the back of a carbon/mesh element and removed the carbon.

I'm not sure if the water plant did anything new, and the fish started swimming "goofy", like swim bladder disease. We didn't notice any unusual smells from the tank, but about that time, the algae was starting to get noticable on the bubble wall attachment, which put an algae eater on the top of the 'to get' list. On one of the larger gold barbs that died, the guy at the LFS showed me a greening coloration under the skin of the dead fish, and said he thought it was probably a bacterial infection, which led to the naladin treatment on an individual basis. I probably should have, at that point just put all the fish into the smaller tank and treated them all, but his reccomendtion was to only treat them as they got sick, so they all pretty much passed away one at a time, after the initial loss of 3 at once.

Eric

 

[myriam]

Eric, sorry to hear about your fish, that is sad :-(

It's interesting that they were sluggish in the huge main tank, but active in the smaller tank. I'm suspecting something with the water in the main tank? Maybe after their quarantine, and after all the meds have been removed, you could try doing a massive water change in the main tank, and putting a fish or two back in afterwards to see if they are acting healthier in there.

 

[Allivymar]

Greenish under the scales? Weird. Red makes sense; bacterial infections can cause septicemia, and blood will seep from the blood vessels which will leave red streaks and red areas on the fish....but green? Thats a new one on me. To be honest, it makes me even more suspicious of some sort of contaminant...

Whats naladin? I've never heard of it.

Swim bladder issues can be caused by infection, but it can also be caused by digestive issues. Very dry food can be a factor (I wonder if the freeze dried daphnia may have been the culprit there; did they start having issues after you introduced it?), as well as constipation.

I agree with myriam's suggestion. I'm suspicious of the main tank; a large water change (maybe 75%) and reintroduction of only one or 2 fish (sort of the canary in the coal mine test - horrible as it may sound, it will at least prevent ALL the fish from having problems if it is related to the tank somehow) only for 2 weeks may help clear things up.

Let us know how things go!

 

[egironda]

Something Allivymar asked just struck me. The fish aren't darting around the hospital tank like they did the night I put them in there. The cherry barbs began cowering under the lone plastic plant in that tank about day #2, pretty much the same as they did in the main tank. The dalmation swims lazily around the tank, just like he did in the big tank, also. None of these remaining fish seem to be affected the way the ones that died were, the cherry barbs are just acting lazy. That's unusual, because they used to bounce the feeding ring out of the way at dinnertime, but now they wait for the food flakes to settle to the bottom. The dalmation comes to the ring every time I open the lid, but slower than he used to with all the fish. I am beginning to wonder if the plankton is what did them in, by being not rehydrated enough to digest, as opposed to being a 'poison' in the water supply, mostly because each fish was affected at a different rate and not all of them in the same way...

Thaks for the replys, and PLEASE... for the kid's sake, anyone else that can help, please do!

Eric

 

[egironda]

A new twist to the story. I just went to do the water change and final dose of the current medicine, and the remaining dalmatian molly was just kinda flopping on the bottom of the tank. when I
went to capture him with the net, he started swimming in his normal (goofy) way, which is kinda all over the place, following the current from the filter. He was normal this morning, swam up to eat,and everything. The cherry barbs are just hanging out under the plant, waiting for food to come to them. Every once in a while, they'll swim a few laps as a group around the middle of the tank. Is this their way of telling me that they're scared of the tank, or that they miss their friends? or is there still something going on that I need to take care of?

Thanks for the help,

Eric G

 

[grimlock3000]

"A new twist to the story. I just went to do the water change and final dose of the current medicine, and the remaining dalmatian molly was just kinda flopping on the bottom of the tank. when I
went to capture him with the net, he started swimming in his normal (goofy) way, which is kinda all over the place, following the current from the filter. He was normal this morning, swam up to eat,and everything."

This sounds like swim bladder disease for sure. This can happen if dry food is caught in their digestive tracts. Make sure the water is OK and stop feeding the fish for a few days. You can try feeding your fish peas as well, it will work like a laxitive. Just thaw some frozen peas and drop them in half squished. Any ammount of non laxative food consumed by the affected fish will only make it worse. Personally I would avoid the peas unless you see no improvement after a few days. Fish can easily make it for a few days with no food, so resist the temptation to feed them until the sick one is better. To prevent this in the future, use different foods, or presoak dried foods before feeding the fish so they absorbed water and can be digested better.

"The cherry barbs are just hanging out under the plant, waiting for food to come to them. Every once in a while, they'll swim a few laps as a group around the middle of the tank. Is this their way of telling me that they're scared of the tank, or that they miss their friends? or is there still something going on that I need to take care of?"

Mine did this for about 36 hours once and freaked me out. They were schooling together in some plants twicthing. Every so often, a few would swim out, then go back to sitting in place with the others. I had no idea what was wrong with the fish and I was scared they were all sick. Then one of the females laid eggs, I had fry a few days after that Currently one of the fry has managed to grow to about 2/3 inch, the rest got eaten when they were still in the eggs or right after they hatched.

When I change the tank decorations, the Barbs do this for a few hours as well. They are very easily spooked and not curious to new things as I have learned. Now I move some things around with the lights off, so they wake up to the new stuff and do not get scared. This works good with moving fish to different tanks as well, always put the fish into a new tank with the lights off and leave them off overnight.

 

[egironda]

Well, the week of treatment has ended, unfortunately the dalmatian is still in the hospital tank. I did a 60% water change to the main tank this morning, during which I removed all the plants & decorations, vac'd the entire gravel area, and regraded the gravel. I put in the new ChemiPure filter bags & cleaned the fluval impeller. This evening I put the 4 cherry barbs into the main tank, and they spent about 10 minutes swimming around near the bottom, checking out the new layout of the decor. Now they are swimming around in pairs, staying close to the big rock cave in the back corner, but that has always been their hideout.

The dalmation is still lying on his side, occasionally moving around the tank, but not looking at all healthy. If he does have swim bladder disease from the dried food, how long untill he gets better, if at all? Also, how soon should I put the crushed pea into the tank for him?

Thanks again,
Eric

 

[grimlock3000]

I had one fish with swim bladder disease from freeze dried worms and it died after four days. Now I put freeze dried food right in the filter output stream so the fish can not get it until it is in the water for a few seconds. I never tried the pea thing myself, but I probably should have on the third day when the fish was not improving. Getting the fish to eat the pea might be hard too, all depends on the fish.

 

[Kwenbee]

Just wondering...are mollys very susceptible to digestive problems? We had one black molly that died the Monday after Thanksgiving. I know that I had an overfeeding issue (daughter and nephew went nuts while I was shopping) the Friday before, so I blamed the death on the overfeeding...actually used it to teach my daughter a valuable lesson about overfeeding the fish.

If I'd known about the pea idea, I probably would have done that.

We also had a catfish who died for no apparent reason last week...I still don't have driftwood in the tank, but the other cat seems fine. All water parameters are fine (finally!)

 

[egironda]

The dalmatian molly in the hospital tank has passed away, however I'm happy to report that the male cherry barb has been chasing the 3 female cherry barbs all over the 90 gallon tank, since this morning. They seem to enjoy having all of that room to themselves, since all of them (nose to tail) might just clear 6 inches.

On a related, happier note, how long should I isolate new fish before adding to the remains of my "adopted family"?