Setting up a mountain stream tank

[Mcgolg76]

On another thread I have been showing off my panda loaches. They are an incredible fish but very hard to find and breed. I would love to house them in a natural environment and maybe just maybe get lucky and have them breed.
The best tank for them would have heavy flow. No plants. Rocks and river stones. The tank would need to be extremely soft but a neutral ph. The temp should be cool between 50 and 70. The loaches are mostly herbivore. Main diet is algae growing on rocks. Mine go crazy for omega 1 veggie rounds.
So question is how do I achieve this. Not gonna start tank till summer but want to start getting supplies ready. Gonna be in a 20 long. Lights need to be suited for growing the soft green algae. Not sure what type of substrate would be most natural for them. To achieve flow probably a mini cannister and a powerhead. Seen some electorate diy river system but I really don't have the skills to pull it off. Trick is to get a seasonal temp flucuation. Really don't want to spend money on a chiller. I figure in summer keep temp at 70 then remove heater in fall. Then in winter time do small water changes daily with cold water. So hopefully that would do the trick.

So any advice to set up this tank. Want to get a supplies list and slowly aquire using sales and cl.


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[Mattfinn]

For substrate you could look at river sand it's a mix of course and fine, you do get larger bits of minerals too. Which gives a nice natural look. Also I think you would want more round, smooth river rocks and maybe some driftwood....

I'm not much help with filtration and such but I imagine you'd want the flow running from side to side and not back to front.

Heating plan sounds good. It's what I'd do but I don't know what else to do there. Sorry that's all I can contribute.

 

[TheresaM]

This is going to be an interesting project, definitely following

 

[Coursair]

My friend has a high flow tank for Hillstream Loaches and other species of cool water fish, but mostly loaches.

She has a 75g, unheated, heavily planted with Jungle Val and other plants. Sand and smooth gravel substrate. Plenty of larger rounded river rocks. Leaves lights on for extra algae. BUT the favorite food is Repashy Gel diets. They LOVE this stuff.

She has 3 baby Hillstreams born this year.





She has 2 big HOBs and keeps water a bit lower to get lots of "splash" she also has one or two powerheads.

Stock is
Siwellia lineolata http://www.loaches.com/species-index/sewellia-lineolata

A Gastromyzon species

Stiphodon percnopterygionus , cute Gobies.

WCMM


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[Mcgolg76]

Like the idea of river sand. Looked it up and probably what I will go for. Didn't know it was sold.
Been looking up river manifold setups. Problem is not sure if I can construct it and if it is even viable in a 20 long. Will get splash back on opposite side. So probably will go for a smaller cannister. Would have have the spray bar and a powerhead on same side of the tank to give the flow.
For decoration would do some driftwood. Only plants I would do would be a bit of Java moss and Anubias tied to the driftwood. Plus tons of river stones. Top fin sells a bunch. Would they raise water hardness? To soften water I will have to mix some ro water with tap water. Hopefully that don't lower ph too much. Any other way to lower water hardness without lowering ph.
Any cheap diy lighting that is cheap. Only needs to grow algae and the simple low light plants.



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[TheresaM]

The river sand is a nice choice.

I've been researching rocks for one of my tanks, only thing I've come up with is the seiryu can raise pH. Quite a few available on eBay, things like this, although you'd probably want smaller.

 

[TheresaM]

Oh wow, just found this older book I have 'Creating A Natural Aquarium', first biotope listed is mountain stream. An entire chapter actually. Will see if there's anything that might help.

 

[azmodan]

A little elaborate but worth checking out:

http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it
http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design

 

[Mcgolg76]

Oh wow, just found this older book I have 'Creating A Natural Aquarium', first biotope listed is mountain stream. An entire chapter actually. Will see if there's anything that might help.

Awesome let me know if you find anything interesting


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[Mcgolg76]

Great article. The first one explains the manifold even better. I just don't think it will work in a 20. The standard 33 might work. But a 4 foot tank for 8 tiny loaches will make the tank seem empty. Not even sure if I will even add the white clouds since if I do get babies the minnows could eat them. Tank won't be planted and the juveniles don't hide at all. So would make the babies easy targets


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[Mattfinn]

A similar biotope to look at is Australian biotopes, very similar looking to a mountain stream. Also I just love the river creek look.
You could always try some Val's or emersed growth plants and mosses hanging into the tank. Though that kinda turns it into a terrarium.

 

[john_franzwa]

Following



John,
Trust me I am not insane

 

[Wy Renegade]

Either of those manifold systems are viable in a 20 long, it is all about the size of the powerheads that you use to drive the manifolds. Also you will likely be surprised by how much flow you can push with this system without creating splash back. Just don't set the powerheads clear up at the top. Also the PVC doesn't even need to be glued together, it can all be cut and simply dry fitted ~ you aren't going to be pulling that much pressure through the system.

 

[Mcgolg76]

How can I tell which size powerheads


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[Wy Renegade]

I would start with a couple 400 or 600 Maxijets and if you don't feel you are getting enough flow, bump it up. Hopefully someone who has built one of these in a 20 gallon can give you some input.

 

[Mcgolg76]

So have thought over my plans a bit. Decided not to go river manifold. Instead going to use an underground filter attached to a powerhead. Also use an aq 30 which I have an extra one sitting around. Gonna start collecting rocks soon. Want to at least start setting up soon. Want to age tank a bit before I move the loaches in. Will start with the white clouds to age. Keep light on tank like 18 hours of day to get the algae growth. Need to find an affordable stand.
Also need to find lighting. Gonna be no plants besides Java miss. But still need strong lights to grow algae. Any advice? Trying to keep project to around 200$. Any powerhead recommendations that will work with an ug filter. Other thing I would like to do is slope the tank with one end being deeper and on end being shallow. Will that work with an ug filter. Really want to get started soon so I can age the tank.


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[Wy Renegade]

Only advice I can give you is that you aren't going to get the kind of flow you are looking for with a undergravel filter attached to a powerhead even with a aq 30 set at max volume. The river manifold would easily come in far below your $200 price tag, even with purchasing two powerheads. For lighting, if algae growth is your only goal, I would go buy two of the aluminum light fixtures from one of the box stores and put 10,000 CF bulbs in them. That would provide more than enough lighting to produce the algae growth you are looking for, and you could easily do that for around $30 to $40. Throw in a little gravel and some free collected rocks and you should easily slid in well under your $200 price tag.

 

[Mcgolg76]

Was kind of talked out of the manifold on the loach forums. Lot of people said 20 would be to short.


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[PoppaRyno]

Love this thread. I've been contemplating a 55gal stream system for a group of 20 gold ring reticulated hill stream loaches i have. I have no idea where to start, so this is great.

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[Mcgolg76]

I feel kind of intimidated by the whole manifold things. People say it is easy but then they spout things I don't understand. Really love the hillstreams. Tempted to do a 40 breeder with my 8 pandas and 6 hillstreams.


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