Sick German Ram

[Cableguy9872]

Hello, I have 2 German balloon rams in my tank, one recently became sick. A few days ago, I noticed his eye had a white cloudy fungus on it, that is what I thought and what my LFS said. He advices me to do a 30% PWC with R/O water(I was using tap water before) to lower my KH and GH. I did this my CH has dropped from 20 to 12 in the last 3 days, my fish's fungus is almost not noticable now, however the fish is very inactive and will not eat(not even brine shrimp) I tested my water and found this:
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-15
pH 8.0(was 8.2)
GH-0
CH-12
Temp- 83.1

When I got home, my ram was vertical in the water(mouth pointing towards the top of the tank, floating on a leaf mid tank, the leaf moved and he sank to the bottom where he just sits. His color is very poor, and I can see a little bit of fungus on him, however his eye is still almost popping out of his head.

Should I try another PWC? medication? what do you guys think?
Please let me know if I missed anything, I think I covered it all but could be wrong!



Posted a picture of him 3 days ago, when I did my PWC. Yes, he is in a net, but it was only so I could get a good picture of him, he was hiding all the time.

 

[fishboy444]

lower the pH to about 6.5-6.9 or something and lower that nitrate they are sensitive to poor water conditions.

 

[Cableguy9872]

i went and got more RO water, by the time i got home, he was laying on his side at the bottom breathing, after about 15 seconds of me seeing that, he stopped.

Any idea what that is over his eye though? was it fungus or what do you guys think?

 

[bluerose]

I wouldn't be too worried about the pH unless it's constant (changing the pH from 8 to mid-high sixes would be VERY stressful). 15ppm nitrate isn't too much to worry about although a water change is never a bad plan.

No idea on the eye-- how long have you had the fish?

 

[Cableguy9872]

i had the fish about a month or so, he was fine and monday when feeding them, i saw his eye messed up, and a few spots on him(thought it was ick almost but just on him and there were not many spots) My guess is it was a fungus, however after he died, I took him out and looked at him, noticed he didn't have one of his fins(pardon, i don't know the proper name for it, but the one on his side near his mouth) so this could have been why he wasn't swimming. I could not see this for he would only sit one way in my tank and never turned, but would swim every now and then. It may have all been caused by his other tank mates harassing him...(i have some mean community fish)

I Don't intend on changing the PH all at one time, im going to SLOWLY do it over the course of a few months(like .1 every other week), very very slowly. Dp you think I should just let my PH stay at 8.2? (it is constant if I just use my tap water) however I have very very high KH (mid to high 20's)

 

[fishboy444]

Might be cloudy eye disease.Here is a link Fish Eye Disorders

 

[Blueiz]

GBR's are one of those fish that are very sensitive to there water conditions, the ph of 8 is a bit extreme as they, IME, need a PH of at most 7-7.5. Your temperature is high too. GBR's are notoriously difficult to keep, especially if you don't get good stock from the get go.

My take on the situation from what you have described and the pictures is your fish was under a lot of stress and that weakened its immune system causing the cloudy eye and fungus. The stress bars on the fish indicate that it is under a lot of stress as well.

How long has your tank been set up?

 

[Cableguy9872]

my tank has been up for about 4 months or so now, I set it up at the beginning of sept. It has been cycled for 3 months(did a fish in cycle) my fish have had no black on them(i knew this was stress) when i brought them homethey were very black, after about a week, the black went away. When his eye got bad, he was like he is in the picture. My temp could have caused it, one night (dunno why) my temp dropped 5 degrees from 80 to 75 when i woke up, got another heater right away and set it to 82(on accident, which is why it was high) and just adjusted it down to 79-80 range. I don't wanna keep it much lower for I know GBR get Ick really easy and 80+ helps keep it at bay.

Thanks for your help everyone, Happy holidays and have a great new year!

 

[Blueiz]

Actually, unless you have your temp set to 86 plus, it will only speed the life cycle of ich up and will do nothing to prevent it or kill it. Keeping the temp up like that as a preventative is also not a wise idea as the higher the temp the lower the amount of dissolved oxygen there is in the water. Ich does not live continuously in the tank, so I would wait for signs that they actually have ich before trying to treat it.

IMO, if you want to keep GBR's you will need to let your tank mature, having it set up for at least 6 months with no problems, and get that ph down. They are sensitive fish and do not do well in recently set up tanks.

 

[DragonFish71]

One thing no one has caught yet is that the fish you have in your pictures, a balloon GBR is a hybrid. It's a cross between a GBR and an angelfish. GBRs in themselves are hard as heck to keep but in cross breeding that usually only intensifies the bad traits. Most GBRs are bred from bad stock over and over again then sold. Then you mix in angel fish genes. You may get a good batch, you may not. We've personally gone through so many GBRs stocking our 40 that I feel like a serial killer and will not get anymore. No matter how perfect we've kept the water, no matter how long they acclimate before being released (1-1/2 hours) we lost them within weeks. We've had many spawn only to lose them all.

Now I'm not saying anything bad about GBRs, Balloons or angels, all beautiful fish, but IME, the quality of what we have on the market is for crap. And crossbreeding doesn't help make a strong strain.

 

[bs6749]

One thing no one has caught yet is that the fish you have in your pictures, a balloon GBR is a hybrid. It's a cross between a GBR and an angelfish. GBRs in themselves are hard as heck to keep but in cross breeding that usually only intensifies the bad traits. Most GBRs are bred from bad stock over and over again then sold. Then you mix in angel fish genes. You may get a good batch, you may not. We've personally gone through so many GBRs stocking our 40 that I feel like a serial killer and will not get anymore. No matter how perfect we've kept the water, no matter how long they acclimate before being released (1-1/2 hours) we lost them within weeks. We've had many spawn only to lose them all.

Now I'm not saying anything bad about GBRs, Balloons or angels, all beautiful fish, but IME, the quality of what we have on the market is for crap. And crossbreeding doesn't help make a strong strain.

Balloon rams are NOT a hybrid between an angelfish and a blue ram. This is a very common misconception which stems from another name for this particular morph of blue ram. The name "angel ram" was given to this morph because of it's roundness (which it was selectively bred for), in addition to it's longer flowing fins. This is a morph of a Microgeophagus ramirezi and not a hybrid.

To the OP, you said you did a 30% water change and that brought your nitrates down to 15ppm, so you originally had over 20ppm in the tank. I'm guessing that you have had the fish in these conditions for quite some time. I don't recommend keeping rams in nitrate concentrations over 10ppm. I always have 5ppm or less in my ram breeding tanks. Rams are very suceptible to higher nitrate levels (over 10ppm does them harm over several weeks time) and this almost always leads to renal failure. The popeye pictured in your fish is typical of this scenario. Most of the time there is a single swollen eye which is the result of the kidneys being infected, usually by a gram positive bacteria. Something like erythromycin would be used to treat this but rams tend to have a poor recovery rate. The soonner they are diagnosed and treated, the better of a chance they have at getting better.

If you decide to go with rams again in the future make sure that you are able to change 25% of the water 2-3 times per week and secondly make sure you get GOOD STOCK from a local breeder, or from someone in the U.S. at the least. If they come from Asia I can pretty much guarantee you that they were hormone treated for both faster coloration and growth and they will die several weeks after you get them home from the fish store. The hormones take a toll on these fish.

Also, I've kept wilds, 50% wilds, and up to F5's in a pH of 8.0 and a GH of 300+ ppm and have had MANY fertile pairs with excellent (95%+) fertilization. You pH isn't an issue as I've known breeders that had reared fry in a pH of 8.4+.