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J rider

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
44
Location
NJ USA
Hi everyone,

Its been a while since I posted. I have been through some difficult personal events so I'm hoping everyone will be understanding about what I have done to my tank. Anyway.

I haven't lost a fish in about 2 months so I think that maybe my tank does not have fish TB. So, I'm going to try to start again with my plants.

I set up my tank in Sept and had continous algae problems until last week when I finally yanked all my plants, did a 60% water change and super cleaned the tank.

I had brown algae, then hair algae then cyanobacteria. I am going to do water changes and keep the lights off for a few days before replanting.

I would really like to try to do things better this time and would like your help.

In this process I learned a lot with your help. I now have dry ferts and all my water test kits. I am still considering CO2 but I would like to know if you think it would help.

My parameters were:
pH: 7.6
KH: 13
phos: .5 ppm after dosing
nitra: < 5 mg/L after dosing
Lighting: 130W of 6700K
Substrate: eco-complete and getting flourite
9 inches of fish (8 of these are algae eaters)
55 gallon
Fluval 304

I was adding nitrates at the end because the high phosphates needed to be balanced. But, I found that even with regular fert regiment of nitra and potassium with Kents micronutrient I needed a water change every 4 days to hold back the algae. Only the water sprite would grow fast enough to keep from be strangled with algae.

My plan of attack is to buy more plants then last time and only buy fast growing plants. I'm adding Flourite and can test and attempt to balance my ferts.

How do I know if my algae problem could be helped by CO2? Where should I buy my plants? Would a water softener insert in my fluval help?

Thanks!!!
 
How do I know if my algae problem could be helped by CO2?
I'm certainly no expert, but I think one reason is as simple as the CO2 helping the plants grow so they "win out" over the algae for light and nutrients.
Sounds like you just got through something tough. Nice to have you back!
 
Your nitrates appear to be on the low side. Algae is often caused when nitrates drop to, or near, zero. At this point your plants become nitrate limited and stop utilizing other nutrients as well, giving algae the advantage. I would recommend keeping your nitrates at 10-15 ppm (mg/l). Your phosphates should be fine right at .5 ppm. I wouldn't recommend using any sort of softening agent as these often use phosphates to soften the water and can cause a big jump in your PO4 levels. I agree with ramfan, CO2 can do nothing but help with algae control. Have you tested for ammonia recently? Ammonia can cause algae faster than anything else. Ammonia levels should be at zero or you can have problems. HTH :)
 
Hi,
I agree the CO2 should help plants grow faster. I just want to make sure that before investing in the CO2 system I try to eliminate other nutrient problems. I know that I needed to supplement the nitra and I was upping it slowly. I think my phospphates were high b/c the plants were always in a state of decaying.
My ammonia was always zero.
I will wait a few days before getting new plants and I really want to keep them alive, is it necessary to set up CO2 before I get them?
Online reccommendations for buying plants? I was going to try AZ aquatics.
Thanks
 
BTW Travis,
Your tank is sooooo beautiful!!!!! I guess that in this hobby we all hope to create something that looks like that. I would appreciate all the help that I could get in order to try to get my tank working. I just want to look in it and think that my fish and plants are happy.
Do you think that my tank would be suited for africans. I have such hard water and naturally higher pH.
GH:8
KH:13
pH:7.6
Thanks
 
I would say that previously, CO2 was the limiting factor/nutrient in your setup. You have a little over 2 watts per gallon...definitely territory where CO2 can make a noticable difference, and make life easier for you. If you had better CO2 levels, the plants would have done better, and out-competed the algae.

Its possible you had also a potassium deficiency, or maybe trace nutrient deficiencies. If any nutrient, including CO2, is too low, it can stunt the plants significantly. you didn't go into extreme detail on the other fert dosing schedules...maybe you had it covered..maybe not. Just food for thought.

Also, you have eco complete, but are adding fluorite? Why? both are equally good substrates. I strongly suggest sticking to one or the other, and about a 3" deep bed.
 
Thanks JR :D Africans would do well in those water conditions however, once you start supplementing CO2 to around 25-30 ppm, your pH will drop considerably so you have to start out with even higher pH (and KH) levels in order to arrive at an end-state that is agreeable to both fish and plants. I would get your algae issues stabilized before trying anything else at this point.
 
Hi and thanks for replying!

"I would get your algae issues stabilized before trying anything else at this point."
So, I will continue to change water and physically remove any new algae. I am also keeping the lights off basically. My fish might not be happy but my nutrient levels are pretty high for a tank with temporarily no plants. I am placing an order with AZ gardens tomorrow for a tank full of plants. I'm sticking to fast growing and cheap plants that need low to moderate lighting. My next step would be to order CO2 a project I just keeping putting off for cost and time reasons. Then I do I final water test and try to balance nutrients and add my plants. Sound good?
My eventual goal would be to try to breed German Rams or Blue Rams. I am very far away. I want everything else in place before I get more fish.

"Its possible you had also a potassium deficiency, or maybe trace nutrient deficiencies."
Thanks for the advice, I really wish I could pin point the problem. It seemed to me that the plants would grow for the first 2-3 weeks after I got them and stop. As I mentioned the water sprite did the best but in the end the algae just did better.
I don't think that potassium was the problem b/c Kents has it and I was dosing it in dry ferts too.
I think that I need to get a better plan for dosing my kents and dry ferts. What would you reccommend? Its frustrating that I cannot really tell how much Kents to add b/c I can't test for its components. I think when I added more the algea seemed worse.

"I strongly suggest sticking to one or the other, and about a 3" deep bed."
I thought maybe since I have had so many problems I could try a different thing with the substrate. I definitely want to get more and I didn't think it would be bad to have 2 different kinds. After all some of the plant tanks in the gallery seem to provide many different types of substrate/ferts. I will go with another bag of Eco-complete if you really think so. I just want my plants to grow!!!! ; )

Lastly, what light schedule should I use when I get plants?

BTW, I discovered that 1-2 of the bags of gravel that I used in my tank have broken pieces of shell. I didn't really notice them before and I think that these bags should be labeled so people know that it will effect their parameters. Do you think this is really bad?

Thanks so much!
Jackie
 
eco complete shouldn't have broken shells in it, though I read that caribsea had a problem in there plant where some packaging machines didn't get cleaned or something, which made several batches of eco complete increase water hardness. If it's small shells, and not too many, I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't use Kent ferts, so I can't help much there. What I do suggest is after a weekly water change, to dose 15-20ppm of potassium. Use Chuck Gadd's calculator. You don't test potassium levels...just dry dose the amount per his calculator that would give you a 15ppm raise in potassium. Unless you have really soft water, overdosing potassium won't cause a problem. If you do have really soft water, extra potassium may inhibit calcium uptake, but honestly you'd have to hit somewhere ariound 40ppm of potassium to make that happen.

I can tell you that any comprehensive fertilizer isn't gonna have a lot of potassium...i wouldn't even worry about counting it towards your total. just consider it icing on the cake...(with cake being the 15ppm you dry dosed)
 
Thanks Malkore,
The shell bits were in general gravel that I bought and mixed with my Eco complete.
I was dosing potassium nitrates and Kents 2 times/ week. Maybe I should do it more often.
BTW I'm back posting on the unhealthy fish forum b/c my clown loach who has been skinny for about 1 week has a slightly foggy eye.
I am so frustrated. I cannot figure out what sickness they have.
I have 7 fish who look perfectly healthy and have not had any illness for about 2 months!
I need to decide if this is TB so I can tear down my tank before getting new plants. ;(
Jackie
 
to answer your question about places to buy plants from online, I just got some from floridiadriftwood.com, and I am very satisfied with the plants. They shipped quick and the shipping cost was very reasonable.
Good luck with your loach, hope your fishes get well quickly (y)
 
Thanks Dr

My clown loach is not getting any worse. My zebra danio seems to have recovered from having reddish swollen gills and being skinny. Its kind of amazing. I can only hope that they continue. I haven't treated the tank with any medications since January but I'm doing 50% water changes every 3 days.
I placed an order from AZ gardens. Their site was well referenced and I was able to ask a lot of questions about my set up. The plants should arrive Friday. Lets hope that the algae holds off, plants grow and the fish don't have TB. I need lots of luck.
Thanks again!
 
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