Steachem Stability or another bottled bacteria?

[PB_Smith]

Er, just posting out of interest as I've never used that one but it seems a very quick cycle? I had thought it took 24hrs for the bacteria to start latching onto media and get going as I had a note not to run UV for 24 to 48hrs post dose?? Just curious.

I'm thinking the 3 weeks of decaying shrimp has more to do with it than bottled bacteria.
Probably never needed it in the first place.

 

[Aneamals]

I wouldn't order medicated fish food.

Fish die after arriving in the store for a lot of reasons. They've also often been heavily medicated already. It's not necessarily the case that the dead fish had a contagious disease.

And even if you do bring home a bug, it's hard to say which medicine is the right one.

Finally, as in humans, some of the things that cause fish disease are present all the time. They cause illness only when things get out of balance. This is one of many reasons why overuse of antibiotics is such a bad idea.

For instance, did you know that one of the bacteria that causes pneumonia, sinus infections, and ear infections is always living in your sinuses? You only get sick when, in the community of bacteria and fungi and viruses that are always in your body, that one bacteria population gets out of control (often because something killed the other stuff off).

Your best bet is to provide a very healthy home. Do avoid buying when it looks like the dead fish was diseased, and quarantine as is appropriate to your situation (I don't, but I have a small tank of cheap hardy fish). Medicate as rarely and judiciously as possible.

Every time I have bought fish, it was from a store that had a few dead fish somewhere. The long term results from PetSmart and from my LFS have been the same.




Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

Good point. But I'm going to buy medicated fish food with metronidazole and keep it in my fish storage for emergencies. Hopefully I won't need to use it.

 

[jetajockey]

I sell a lot of medicated fish food. I usually recommend it to people to have on standby if an issue pops up, it lasts for quite a while when refrigerated. That said, I don't recommend it to be used as a general prophylactic. The only time I recommend actually using medicated food is when you narrow down a particular issue and wish to deal with it without doing a whole-tank treatment. I also use it on recently wild caught fish as part of their QT procedure.

Don't buy sick fish, or fish from unkempt, sick tanks. Even if a LFS has just a couple of really bad looking tanks, I wouldn't suggest buying from them until they get everything worked out and looking good again.

 

[Delapool]

Well, then I guess my tank had already cycled when I poured the SafeStart. Heh, oh well. I'll use it for possible future emergencies.

Any change in ph? A sudden drop might indicate more bb activity?

 

[trennamw]

I sell a lot of medicated fish food. I usually recommend it to people to have on standby if an issue pops up, it lasts for quite a while when refrigerated. That said, I don't recommend it to be used as a general prophylactic. The only time I recommend actually using medicated food is when you narrow down a particular issue and wish to deal with it without doing a whole-tank treatment. I also use it on recently wild caught fish as part of their QT procedure.

Don't buy sick fish, or fish from unkempt, sick tanks. Even if a LFS has just a couple of really bad looking tanks, I wouldn't suggest buying from them until they get everything worked out and looking good again.

But even buying things to keep on hand, isn't there a big chance you end up with a problem that needs another medication?

I never buy fish from anywhere that looks unkempt or where there appears to be something that died from disease. There are about 5 Petsmart locations I go to often, one really stands out in how dirty the tanks are, and the number of dead fish, especially ones that look to have been sitting awhile.

But buying from a place free of dead fish is impossible. I also go to The Wet Spot, which is claimed to be the biggest freshwater fish store in the country. They've always got a tank or two under quarantine.

The thing I worry about, having just one medicine on hand, is that people use it because it's what's on hand not because it's the right one. And just in case.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[jetajockey]

But even buying things to keep on hand, isn't there a big chance you end up with a problem that needs another medication?

I never buy fish from anywhere that looks unkempt or where there appears to be something that died from disease. There are about 5 Petsmart locations I go to often, one really stands out in how dirty the tanks are, and the number of dead fish, especially ones that look to have been sitting awhile.

But buying from a place free of dead fish is impossible. I also go to The Wet Spot, which is claimed to be the biggest freshwater fish store in the country. They've always got a tank or two under quarantine.

The thing I worry about, having just one medicine on hand, is that people use it because it's what's on hand not because it's the right one. And just in case.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

I don't think medicated foods are any different than someone having liquid/tablet medications on hand, except for the fact that medicated foods are less of a shotgun approach compared to whole tank treatments.

I sell 2 antibiotic foods (one gram positive one gram negative), but the other 4 are all anti parasite meds (levamisole, metro, fenbendazole, prazi). In my experience, treating with feed seems to be far less intrusive, assuming the fish is still eating. So it's a bit different from the old jungle antibiotic pellet/anti parasite pellet thing, if they even still sell those.

I don't think it's smart to feed medicated on any sort of regular basis (antibiotic especially). But if someone follows the directions then they feed for a specified amount of time and that's it.

As you know it can be tricky diagnosing a particular fish issue since a lot of 'diseases' are actually symptoms of an underlying problem, and most of us are far from fish biologists.

 

[PB_Smith]

I never buy fish from anywhere that looks unkempt or where there appears to be something that died from disease. There are about 5 Petsmart locations I go to often, one really stands out in how dirty the tanks are, and the number of dead fish, especially ones that look to have been sitting awhile.

But buying from a place free of dead fish is impossible.

True, fish can die relatively easily, and if you have a hundred or more tanks, there will certainly be causalities.
Everyone should be rational enough to understand that, what I can not for the life of me fathom is why some lfs's will leave the dead fish in the tanks!!!??

There is one store that ALWAYS has dead or diseased fish in their tanks, which is a real shame because he has had some awesome saltwater fish, but I will never buy any fish from his tanks.
Now the part the irritates the worst is the owner at times will lament about how slow business is and "woe is me", the whole time I'm thinking "If you got off your butt and took the dead fish out, you might sell more."

Eons ago when I managed a lfs, we would walk the store every hour checking the tanks for sick or dead fish. It really isn't that difficult, don't know why all stores don't do it, and it does have a direct impact on the bottom line.
There is absolutely nothing more embarrassing than to have a customer point out dead fish in the tanks.

Concerning your local Petsmart with nasty tanks, just call their corporate office and tell them their merchandise is dying (literally) on the shelf and profits are literally being flushed down the toilet.

If you call and complain about the poor fish and how terrible it is for them, nothing will happen.

If you call and tell them they are losing $$$ daily because of poor upkeep of the department, someone will be looking for a new job and that Petsmart will be looking for a new "fish guy".

 

[PB_Smith]

one thing that also come into play with medicated food and treatments is cost.
Is it worth it to spend $25 on treatments for a $2 gourami that may or may not respond to treatment?

 

[Aneamals]

I bought some medicated fish food with metronidazole because the sick platies I see at the lfs (I want 4 platies) usually seem to show signs of internal parasite (white strings hanging from their butts). I've also seen platies with thick strings of brown poop hanging from their butts. In that case, I don't know what that means.

I won't use metro for everything though, as I know it doesn't treat every problem. But I will use it if my platy shows signs of internal parasite, as there is a possibility that he might get it.

I'm buying from an lfs with sick fish because they are selling the specific fish that I want, and I can't find them in any other fish store.

 

[Aneamals]

The ph looks to be 6.8! Usually the pH rises to 8.2 during a cycle.

Though I tested my 29 gallon tank today too, because it's been a long while since I've tested it. It seems to still be at pH 8.2. That confuses me. With the old 3 gallon tank, it had also risen to 8.2 during the cycle, but lowered to 7.5 when it finished.

I also tested the 29's parameters to make sure it isn't recycling or something. They're at ammo 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate 5-10ppm (can't tell between them). So it seems to still be cycled. Though the nitrates seemed to have lowered, possibly because of the marimo moss balls I added about a month or 2 ago.

 

[Delapool]

Sooo, do you think it worked?

I don't know why ph has increased when it did either. Unless you added something?

 

[trennamw]

Now that the thread is off on a tangent ...

I often wish there was a small sick fish kit we could get that had 3-4 of the most likely treatments and a little booklet for guidance. Like this "homeopathy for kids" kit I got for $30 ... Homeopathy is highly complex because you have to consider a spectrum of symptoms but if people can do it for kids who can't talk they can do it for fish.

I did let Petsmart know they've got an area store that needs attention and yep having been in retail management I talked dollars ... Lol.

We have two independently owned LFSes ... One is near and the assistant mgr is a gem, and they rescue Oscars and keep bettas in big community tanks and lots of good things ... But the store is dirty and the displays are sad and I didn't like the look of their back room when I saw it once. Even their bathroom was disgusting (the things you get to see when you've got a four year old who urgently needs to "go") ... Come to think of it I've only ever seen one dead fish there but I consider it the yucky store and rarely get livestock there (I go to a nearby favorite Petsmart instead).

The other is far, huge, busy ... It's hard to catch an employee, though they're great when you do. They aren't such activists for fish well being. They're so huge they always have something dead that someone hasn't pulled yet. But the store is clean.

It's hard to know which qualities make a good store ... Another one of those gut things, I suspect.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[Aneamals]

Sooo, do you think it worked?

I don't know why ph has increased when it did either. Unless you added something?

I think it did work! I would expect the cycling to at least take another week, because last week there was still ammonia. And the pH usually takes a while to go down, even after the cycling is seemingly complete. But I tested, the pH is where it should be, not high, and the parameters are perfect. It looks to me it was thanks to Tetra SafeStart!

Although, there will always still be doubt, as I had already started cycling naturally, before I used it. Sooooo there is the possibility it didn't actually do anything. XD But my personal answer is yes, it sped up the cycle.

 

[Aneamals]

Now that the thread is off on a tangent ...

I often wish there was a small sick fish kit we could get that had 3-4 of the most likely treatments and a little booklet for guidance. Like this "homeopathy for kids" kit I got for $30 ... Homeopathy is highly complex because you have to consider a spectrum of symptoms but if people can do it for kids who can't talk they can do it for fish.

I did let Petsmart know they've got an area store that needs attention and yep having been in retail management I talked dollars ... Lol.

We have two independently owned LFSes ... One is near and the assistant mgr is a gem, and they rescue Oscars and keep bettas in big community tanks and lots of good things ... But the store is dirty and the displays are sad and I didn't like the look of their back room when I saw it once. Even their bathroom was disgusting (the things you get to see when you've got a four year old who urgently needs to "go") ... Come to think of it I've only ever seen one dead fish there but I consider it the yucky store and rarely get livestock there (I go to a nearby favorite Petsmart instead).

The other is far, huge, busy ... It's hard to catch an employee, though they're great when you do. They aren't such activists for fish well being. They're so huge they always have something dead that someone hasn't pulled yet. But the store is clean.

It's hard to know which qualities make a good store ... Another one of those gut things, I suspect.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

Haha the thread totally did.

I agree, that would be a great idea! I would like it even more if they were medicated foods, as it won't kill the beneficial bacteria.

I also have a lfs that is dirty, and there are always dying or dead fish somewhere. But it's quite large and has an amazing variety of freshwater fish you can't find anywhere else in the region, possibly the whole island. I really want 2 types of platys that they're currently selling there.
But I do have a favorite Petsmart, with fish in the best quality I've ever seen, and one employee who really knows fish! But they only sell 2-3 types of platies, and I only want 1 of them. But I do plan on buying other fish from them.