Tank creatures stressed out after water change

[Delapool]

You may find the lfs will do kh and gh for free. I don't know how much your well water varies. Our bore used to be different over winter vs summer. I can't remember if you had tested it for anything (not just kh/gh/ph)?

Stress coat I've never had any trouble with and think a fine product. Prime very nice as well and detoxifies ammonia, etc.

I was wondering if the hot water may be depleted in O2 and if this may cause a problem?

 

[dragon14]

What I do with change sensitive fish is to drip water back into the tank from a water change. I too am on well water and I don;t always use the house faucets so I am at the will of the ground for the temp. I use 1 gal jugs ( 2 drops of PRIME, just in case ) and a piece of airline tubing with a one way valve at the end. I will set up the drip to acclimation speed ( 1-2 drops per second) then walk away and do my other things while the water drips into the tank. Since I know how much water I have removed for the change, I know that no matter what, I can't overfill the tank if I add back the exact amount I removed. This should be less stressful on your fish AND the water shouldn't alter the temp in the tank as your heater should be able warm up any cooler water faster than your adding it.

Hope this helps

How would you go about setting up something like this up? I've never seem Prime at our LFS, but I could get it online. Why is Prime better than the other conditioners? I see it highly regarded on this forum.

 

[dragon14]

Having a well myself, I know that, depending on the age of the pipes from the well, it's possible to get small amounts of metals into the water. PRIME is supposed to detoxify heavy metals ( amongst other things) as well as promote slime production on the fish so it's purpose is not just for ammonia reduction/ elimination. This is why we are recommending it as the OP doesn't have a concrete answer as to why.
But I guess everyone has different experiences with well water. Some can't use it straight for the well as it is devoid of dissolved oxygen. I don't seem to have that issue. Some have nitrate readings from their water. I've done a complete run of tests on mine and have no nitrates. So we need to check everything in order to rule out everything. I'm with ya on the no excess supplements. More people ruin their tanks with kindness.

No ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate in our well water. I have never tested for anything else with a test kit since I don't have any other test kits at the moment. I'm pretty sure we have no copper, otherwise I think our shrimp would be dead

How would you know if your water is devoid of dissolved oxygen?

 

[dragon14]

When your fingers are running under the tap they get used to the temp and aren't as sensitive. I fill up a one gal container and then check the temp with the same thermometer that is in that particular tank to make sure it is the same before adding. Then I use a dechloriator and take a 2 cup glass measuring cup and slowly pour that much at a time over my hand and over a tank decoration . That way it is more dispersed . it doesn't take long to pour it in that way. ..Alison

Thanks for the tip!

 

[dragon14]

I use Prime as my conditioner. I get the little bottle w dropper cap. 1 drop per Gal. Super easy to dose my water before I add to the tank.

For my Cats and other fish I add slightly Cooler water. Stimulates them to breed.

I know u have a Betta ? With them. You might try dropping water temp gradually to 76f. Might b too warm for cats or they may be scared if Betta. Mine were very active. 78f is at the very top of pygmaeus temp range.

My habrosus were kept at room temps.
Corydoras pygmaeus • Callichthyidae • Cat-eLog

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The betta is not with them anymore, she is in another tank.

I will try dropping the water temp! They only do this after water changes, but, if that is towards the high end for them, we will drop the temp!

Maybe I should just make the water a little cooler then?

I'd sure like to figure out what is going on without making it overly complicated.

 

[dragon14]

That said, Dragon it would be beneficial for you to put a little bit of water treatment in with each pitcher you put in. Most people here recommend Seachem Prime. It takes care of chlorine and other metals. You're doing pretty well trying to match your temperature. I would imagine your fish just get a little stressed out doing water changes. Your 10 gal tank isn't that large and they might just be a little skittish.

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Thanks! I will put it in the pitchers from now on. I wasn't before because I wasn't sure how much to put in each pitcher, but I'll drizzle a bit in the pitchers each time we fill it with water and it'll all mix when it goes in the tank.

They are skittish fish... if we walk near them they scatter.... have to be very careful with them.

 

[dragon14]

You may find the lfs will do kh and gh for free. I don't know how much your well water varies. Our bore used to be different over winter vs summer. I can't remember if you had tested it for anything (not just kh/gh/ph)?

Stress coat I've never had any trouble with and think a fine product. Prime very nice as well and detoxifies ammonia, etc.

I was wondering if the hot water may be depleted in O2 and if this may cause a problem?

I can bring a sample over next time we go! I can get a kit, but I don't want to spend the money if I don't really need it.

Maybe. Any idea how to tell if the water has less oxygen?

 

[Andy Sager]

How would you know if your water is devoid of dissolved oxygen?

The fish would die and have their gills open wide trying to get oxygen. That was the scenario I was told happens. Since this is my first well water experience at home, I was thankfully surprised that I didn;t have that experience. My only other professional experience was with a well we dug but the water went through a filter before going into the tanks so it was oxygenated in the filter. As for non lethal ways of testing, there used to be kits for testing dissolved oxygen for the hobby but I don;t know if they are still out there. Maybe check with stores that carry more saltwater testing kits.

As for why PRIME over other conditioners, JMcpeak may have already given you the answer in a previous post. What I don't know about Stress Coat is how it reacts to ammonia and nitrites. PRIME also detoxifies ammonia and nitrites. If Stress Coat does that too, it should make no difference which of the 2 you use. Most conditioners only work towards removing chlorine or chloramine. That's the biggest difference.

Hope this helps

 

[dragon14]

Thanks Andy!

I'll check the bottle, but pretty sure it says that it does those things.

Our betta doesn't react this way; maybe the catfish just get stressed out anyway from the water change, maybe nothing is actually wrong. We are definitely going to try to pour the water in a bit slower next time though.

We've never had a fish die from a water change, and like I said, the betta doesn't seem to have this issue.... :/

 

[Andy Sager]

How would you go about setting up something like this up?

Take a long piece of airline tubing that will reach from your jug into the tank. Either get a single one way valve from your LFS or you can get the airline kit from petsmart or Petco which will have one way valves, tee connectors and suction cups and use one of the one way valves. Put one end of the tubing in the jug and start a siphon into your tank. Adjust the water flow with the valve. It's a more accurate method than trying to tye knots in the tubing.
It's exactly the same as doing a drip acclimation for a new fish only in reverse.

 

[PB_Smith]

just as a side note, you DO NOT generally want to use Stress Coat or similar in a saltwater tank as it will reek havoc on a protein skimmer and isn't to great for corals I understand.

 

[dragon14]

Take a long piece of airline tubing that will reach from your jug into the tank. Either get a single one way valve from your LFS or you can get the airline kit from petsmart or Petco which will have one way valves, tee connectors and suction cups and use one of the one way valves. Put one end of the tubing in the jug and start a siphon into your tank. Adjust the water flow with the valve. It's a more accurate method than trying to tye knots in the tubing.
It's exactly the same as doing a drip acclimation for a new fish only in reverse.

Thanks and this could be stuck into a bucket with the water in it, and even if the water was about 8 degrees colder than the tank, the slow drip would be ok for them? What if it was left unattended, would it be ok?

 

[dragon14]

just as a side note, you DO NOT generally want to use Stress Coat or similar in a saltwater tank as it will reek havoc on a protein skimmer and isn't to great for corals I understand.

Thanks for the tip! This is a Freshwater tank but I will keep that in mind should we ever do a saltwater tank!

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy!

I'll check the bottle, but pretty sure it says that it does those things.

Our betta doesn't react this way; maybe the catfish just get stressed out anyway from the water change, maybe nothing is actually wrong. We are definitely going to try to pour the water in a bit slower next time though.

We've never had a fish die from a water change, and like I said, the betta doesn't seem to have this issue.... :/

Unfortunately, Bettas are not good fish to compare things to. They are anabantids and breath atmospheric air ( just like you) so if the water was polluted, they could still breath. Cory cats also breathe some atmospheric air but not as much as Bettas so they are subject to more changes in the water. It's possible it is just a temperature issue or a frightened issue. Drip water changes will just help keep things in the tank more calm.

Here's an excerpt from Catfish FAQ: Can catfishes (especially corys) breathe atmospheric air? If they leave the water in search for other waters, how do they breathe? Do catfish have lungs?
Yes, some catfish, particularly Corydoras and most Loricariidae (plecos) are able to "gulp" air and use the oxygen in the air to help survive under low-oxygen periods. They will do this from time to time under normal conditions.... Catfishes do not have lungs. Lungs are actually modified swim bladders, and while catfishes do have swim bladders, but they do not use their swim bladders for gaseous exchange the way we use our lungs.

Here's about Bettas :Bettas are anabantoids, which means they can breathe atmospheric air using a unique organ called the labyrinth. This accounts for their ability to thrive in low-oxygen water conditions that would kill most other fish....

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks and this could be stuck into a bucket with the water in it, and even if the water was about 8 degrees colder than the tank, the slow drip would be ok for them? What if it was left unattended, would it be ok?

When I need to use a bucket, I'll use a cloths pin to attach the airline to the handle so it doesn't fall out. ( That or weigh down the bucket end so it can't come out of the bucket.) For temps, the general rule is " The greater the temperature difference, the slower the drip should be."
As for unattended: if nothing will interfere with the bucket ( like a child or other household pet) then as long as the airline ends are securely in their places, there's no real need to stand there. (I usually go have lunch while my tanks fill.) As I said previously, If I take a gallon out and put a gallon in then there's no worry about overfilling.

 

[dragon14]

Thanks Andy!

Our catfish do take gulps, but not excessively or anything.

Thanks, I didn't' realize that bettas weren't a good fish to compare.... I know all about their labyrinth organ, though.

I have a feeling it is being frightened, they do it sometimes when we accidentally scare them walking by, or if we have to stick a net in the tank. Temperature could definitely have something to do with it.

We will definitely consider using a drip method, we'll see how lowering the tank temp does and pouring water in more slowly helps, and also trying to make sure the water is as close to the tank temp as possible... thanks again for all your help and explaining it to me!

 

[Andy Sager]

No problem. Glad to help

 

[Delapool]

I can bring a sample over next time we go! I can get a kit, but I don't want to spend the money if I don't really need it.

Maybe. Any idea how to tell if the water has less oxygen?

I've only seen it a few times but panting is an indication. In mine they were going to the surface as well and just looked different to normally cruising around.

Other times I've seen panting is when I have lifted the tank temp for ich treatment or an unrelated meds treatment. In those cases the fish just seemed to "park" them selves up somewhere and sit pretty still except for the gills going quite quickly.

Last one is I don't think api stress coat will detoxify ammonia, etc. API Ammo Lock will (detoxify ammonia and remove chlorine and chloramines). Last time I looked into this it seemed that stress coat will only remove chlorine and chloramines from tap water & neutralizes heavy metals. Links below.

Welcome to API Fishcare: STRESS COAT®

Welcome to API Fishcare: AMMO LOCK®

 

[dragon14]

I'll reply later Delapool (thanks for replying!)

I just wanted to post here that right now for the last 15 mins or so we have at least 6 of our catfish swimming around mid to top level being cute and shoaling around!! Makes us happy!

 

[Delapool]

Great news that's really good.