Tank Planning (Dreaming)

[Purrbox]

Now that my 2.5 Gal and 5 Gal Tanks are doing pretty well, I'm starting to think about setting up one or two more tanks. I've got a 10 Gal Tank sitting in the basement gathering dust and one of my coworkers has offered me a 20 Gal Tank with stand and equipment free for the taking. It's got an undergravel filter, so I know that I'd be replacing some if not all of the equipment that would come with it.

Tenative plans would be to set up the 10 Gal as a High Light Planted Tank for breeding Cherry Red Shrimp (maybe housing one or two other varieties as well) and to set up the 20 Gal Tank as a High Light Planted Tank for breeding Pygmy Cories.

10 Gallon
10 Gallon Tank (already have)
Open Wooden Stand (already have)
50 Watt Ebo Jager Heater (already have)
Digital Thermometer (already have)
Penguin Mini (already have, would remove biowheel)
Glass Canopy (already have)
Satellite 20" 1x40W CF 1 Lunar Light Fixture
DIY CO2 - Two 2 Liter bottles with Red Sea Reactor 200
Eco Complete - 1 bag

20 Gallon
20 Gallon Tank (free)
Open Wooden Stand (free)
100 Watt VisiTherm Stealth Heater OR Hydor 200Watt Inline Heater
Digital Thermometer (already have)
HOB OR Fluval MSF104 Filter
Glass Canopy
Satellite 24" 1x65W CF 1 Lunar Light Fixture
DIY CO2 - Two 2 Liter bottles with Red Sea Reactor 200
Eco Complete - 2 bags

How's this setup look? Would the DIY CO2 be sufficient or would I need larger bottles?

I'm also considering buying a pressurize CO2 system and using a manifold to supply all 4 tanks with CO2. Probably go for something along the lines of a Regulator with Selinoid on a timer set to longest lighting period for all tanks, a manifold with bubble counters, and of course a CO2 tank. Approximately how long would a 5lb tank last vs a 10lb tank in this kind of setup? I'd also probably want a powered reactor for at least the 20 Gal Tank, which if I go for the canister filter could be hooked up inline.

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks all!

 

[Simpte]

Looks good to me. Your 20 gallon is almost the exact setup I had. (I used a 204 on it).
For the 10 gallon you could go with a 4plus or duetto internal but it will look bad.

 

[Purrbox]

Okay, I've been doing some more looking and have revised my plans as follows.

For the 20 Gallon Tank I would use either a AquaClear 20 or 30 if going with a HOB.

I'm also thinking about replacing the Red Sea Reactor 200's with a DIY Powered Reactor. Rather than doing the standard DIY plan, I was thinking of doing a scaled down version of the Reactor 1000. I was looking at the AquariumSystems Micro-Jet Pumps or the Hydor Pico Pumps, since they both have a small footprint and wouldn't take up much space in the tank. If using the canister filter for the 20 Gallon Tank, I obviously wouldn't need the pump. The Reaction Chamber would be built out of PVC and filled with 1/2" NanoBalls. Finally connecting everything using Vinyl Tubing.

If anyone has done something similar and has plans for building the Reaction Chamber that would be very helpful.

This setup would allow me to use powered diffusion while not taking up much space in the tanks. Might even try this on one or both of my existing tanks, to see if I can reduce the need to use Fourish Excel.

 

[Glenc]

Hi Purrbox. Have you tried the Red sea 200 yet? It does work well for a while. Eventually the little rubber seal that forces the CO2 through the air stone keeps working it's way loose. Big CO2 bubbles leak out, right out of your tank. So much for your fine bubbles. I thought it was just me, so I went out and bought ANOTHER one. Another 30 bucks. Same thing happened! That's the one I tossed out my door in frustration. For real! I still have the original that I bought. I now use it as a bubble counter/ check valve.

 

[Purrbox]

I've got two currently. One in the 5 Gallon Tank and the other in my 2.5 Gallon tank. The one in the 5 Gallon is working great and has been for five months. Constant supply of nice fine bubbles.

Unfortunately the one in the 2.5 Gallon tank is having the problems that you described and I've only had it running for four months. I believe it's related to the fact that I've had to clear algae off of the stone several times, as the large bubbles started after one of the cleanings. The other one has stayed nice and clean, so I haven't had to touch it at all. I've tried taking it apart and putting it back together, which got it working again briefly. May try baking the stone, in case part of the problem is that it's clogged.

Either way, it's been a pain lately which led me to thinking about trying to put together a smaller sized powered reactor. In the end I may just end up trying to locate a CO2 Resistant Air Stone and call it done. I believe the Kordon Airstones are supposed to be really good.

 

[czcz]

You should consider using one of those pumps for powered diffusion and water movement as well, and just use plants as biofilters. If mechanical filtration is important, you could use a prefilter to the pump.

Here's a real good site with a nice DIY inline reactor plan from a great guru . (Check out his tank in their featured gallery!) http://www.gwapa.org/articles/inline_co2_reactor/

Nice thing about a 10-20gal is you don't need a perfect reactor since its easy to compensate with a rich mix. If you use a canister you could probably get away with injecting into the return line with no bioballs, if you wanted. (I do it with my "sump" return line, in a set-up with no biomedia.)

 

[Purrbox]

Thanks for the input czcz, that was exactly what I was looking for, I wish I could give you kudos!

I was hoping for a little more detail on how to construct the diffuser, but I think there's enough information there that I'll be able to figure out what I need to do. How much smaller to you think I could make the reactor while still keeping it efficient enought for my small tanks?

Now, as far as using the pump and reactor without a filter. Would this work only in High Light setups, or do you think this would work in my 5 Gallon Medium Low Light tank?

 

[czcz]

What are you looking for detail wise? It may help to just incorporate the concept of most powered diffusors-- essentially breaking up the bubbles by brute force -- into your ideas for your tank. You can keep the chamber short and have a ton of those little ceramic noodles in there. Or just use a small powerhead and feed it before the impeller or through the venturii attachment, to disperse bubbles. You might be surprised by how high CO2 will climb even by keeping it simple in small volume.

Clear chambers can look sweet. Check out Barr's Venturii loop. It appears somewhat more complicated than any diffusor I have built, but it's design means the length of the chamber and ugly stuff in it is unimportant.

Plants as biofilters can work with any light, assuming plant mass and growth are in excess vs. bioload. If you are dosing lots of NO3 into the 5g to meet your targets, it should do great. If not, you should stick in a fast grower first, just in case, say, the sags and anubias can not keep up with the apple snail or something. Of your plants, R. rotundifolia will grow in med/low light, and you could then remove biomedia once confident that plant mass and growth is adequate for the bioload.

(In most every heavily-planted and moderate-bioload community set-up, I would bet biomedia is as unnecessary as carbon. This with current is the part of the Walstad method I found the most effective, interesting, and applicable to my goals, fwiw.)

HTH

 

[czcz]

JBN's list of DIY CO2 plans on The Planted Tank may help.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/22646-my-collection-diy-co2-diffuser-reactors.html

 

[Purrbox]

I was just hoping for more of step by step instructions. Mostly just because I've never built anything using PVC. It looks like there's some sort of adhesive being used to join the pieces, which I'd need to identify. I also can't tell if this same adhesive is being used to attach the airline connector. Just little things like that.

(Just saw your lastest post while reviewing mine, and one of the links help clear up some things like the PVC Cement being the adhesive used.)

As far as the venturi loop, I'm avoiding that design just because the tanks are so small, that I want to keep as much space for plants as possible. Of course with setting everything up outside the tank, I really need to find a way to hide the equipment so that the tanks look more presentable.

I had no idea that the Rotala Rotundifolia would able to grow in my 5Gal tank. I may have to try some in the 5Gal tank once I've got extra clippings I can add from the 2.5Gal tank. As far as dosing NO3, I'm currently dosing 10ppm NO3 twice a week in the 5Gal tank. Not sure if this would be considered lots or not.

Thanks!

 

[czcz]

FWIW, I only use the PVC cement labelled safe for drinking water, because it makes me feel better. You could go for threaded connections too, and use teflon plumber's tape to seal it up. I also never built anything from PVC before this hobby... I think you will find that once you are looking at all the fittings at the store, it is easy to brainstorm and figure out. Note that Ghazanfar Ghori used "Plumber's Goop" for the airline connection; Super glue works just as well when the fitting is tight.

Since you are keeping everything out of the tank, have you considered an inline heater too? I had considered doing it with a thick PVC pipe to house a normal heater, and some sort of bulkhead and seal for the powercord. I have not seen any designs or talk about this. (And appreciate links, off thread preferably, should anyone have some.) Just an idea.

20ppm NO3/wk indicates that your plant growth and uptake is good. I would move forward with plants as biofilters in that tank. I would still add to the current plant mass for redundancy/saftey.

(edited for clarity)

 

[Purrbox]

Okay... went browsing at Menards and located the stuff that I'll need. Still not sure on the PVC Cement, since there were several varieties and none of them said drinking water safe that I saw. I'm thinking of using 1 1/4" pipe and making it maybe 6 - 8" long. Then all I'd need to do is order some of those 1/2" NanoBalls, airline connectors, and water pumps and I'd have everything I'd need.

The smallest inline heater I've seen was 200Watts, so I can't see myself using one on anything smaller than the 20Gal Tank, and even then it would be overkill. I wouldn't have the foggiest how to build one using PVC and a regular heater, so that route's not in consideration for now. Maybe once you get it all figured out, built, and directions posted.

Yeah, I've still got some reworking I want to do with the plants before I'd try it on the 5Gal. I'm just not happy with the Sag, but haven't found suitable replacements yet. I'll probably order some plants after we get settled into the new place. No building for or major changes to the tanks until after the move.

Thanks for all the help so far czcz!