TDS....explain pls

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Kelly5978

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I have a vague idea now about how kh/ph/gh work. However, I know TDS is also important. My 55g has been 242 approx for as long as I remember. I got lazy the other day, and just topped off the water (evaporation...it wasn't water change time, but still I know better). Luckily, all my tests (ammonia, gh, etc) stayed good. However, my TDS jumped to 495. I understand that's because I didn't remove any waste, but added more things in the new water. The only other things ive done differently are: I put my purigen under my bio-bag after rinsing the bio-bag during my last water change a week ago (it's usually on top) and I've been adding vita-chem. I added trace elements once, but realized it may raise my gh....so I stopped over a week ago. I did a water change, but the TDS only came down to 450. Questions:
1. Is the new water or the covered purigen the likely culprit?
2. How bad is my high TDS? Do I need to do a big water change, or will the fish be okay?

It's so nice to have a forum to ask questions. Thank you for any help!
 
I think in FW tanks TDS don't so much importance, but what is important is the kind of TDS you have...

a TDS can be GH/KH/Mg/Ca/NaCl/Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, phosphates, cooper, chlorine, etc... A TDS meter only give you the total amount of TDS...

The things you should test from your tap is Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates/Phosphates/KH/GH. If you don't have any luck with shrimps/snails, the I would test for cooper...

TDS is bad things mostly in saltwater aquariums...
 
The importance of TDS is that if there is a radical difference, between water a fish is in compared to water it's going in, there is the risk of osmotic shock. Osmotic shock is a real thing and the most likely real reason for "pH shock". So, perhaps in general terms it may not be a big deal, the numbers in the original post indicate how easily it can change.
 
Thanks. Funny thing is: I've had a ghost shrimp survive medications, mean fish, and my crazy self for months! Okay, so....if my gh and kh stayed the same, I should be alright? This is an angelfish tank...and they give me a lot of trouble. I'm currently buying spring water and mixing with distilled, because we figured out something in my tap water was killing fry, and keeping the angels sick. Is there any way to know what the gh or kh is made of? I'd feel terrible if my fish weren't getting what they needed....cause my gh was some carbonate whatever in the spring water! I hate all this confusing water stuff! I've tried to create their ideal environment, and they do seem happier... Does anyone know if fresh trace affects gh? I'd like to add it, just to be SURE they get what they need....
 
You need to read up on aquarium water chemistry to better understand it. But your KH test measures the amount of calcium in the water only. The GH test measures what is called total hardness, that's the amount of calcium and magnesium together.

TDS means total dissolved solids. These are molecules that are not water molecules. They can be metals, heavy metals, pesticides, herbicides, chlorine, anything at all that is in the water that is not hydrogen or oxygen.

Marine keepers need to start with water that is pure, usually RO, maybe DI.. and that's because they are adding salt mix. TDS measurements are a way of measuring the amount of salt needed. There are other ways, such as measuring the salinity, a couple of different tools to do that. But if the water they start with has some amount of solids in it, it can make it more difficult to get the right ratio of salt to water.

In fresh water tanks, TDS tends to be most often used by shrimp keepers. Sensitive shrimps, like crystal and Bee shrimps, are more easily shocked by changes in the water parameters. So keepers try to keep the TDS in new water as close to what is in the tank as they can.

Fish are also sensitive to changes in TDS. But it depends on the fish species, not all are as sensitive as others. But big changes.. as yours, which more or less doubled, can really make a difference to fish, especially fry.

Try testing your tap water after it has been in a container for 24 hours, with the dechlorinator added, and it's best if it has an airstone running in it as well.

Do the same with the spring water. Also measure TDS for both the tap and spring water.

The results should tell you if there are any major differences between your tap and spring water. Not all spring water is fantastic quality.. much of it has flouride in it, some of it, I am sure, is really tap water with a fancy label on it, though that might be hard to prove or disprove, I often wonder about what's really in those bottles.

Most tap water is safe enough for most fish, if you use dechlorinator and do regular partial water changes. Topping up only does increase the TDS levels, because as water evaporates, the solids become more concentrated, and when you add more top up water, you add more solids with it. The only way to avoid this is a proper water change.

Water changes also provide new minerals, which do get used up over time in a tank. The fish utilize them, for one thing, to regulate their internal pressure.. this is osmoregulation. And as the previous poster commented, a big change in TDS may be the real reason for the symptoms of what we used to believe was pH shock instead.

Stable water parameters are the single best thing you can do for fish, and tap water, while it's usually safe, should be tested periodically, because weather events can affect what the water treatment plant adds to the tap water at any given time of year. Heavy rains especially can mean extra chemicals being added.

Hope that helps a bit.. but you need to read up on water chemistry. It's not the easiest topic to wrap your brain around, and I'm still learning, and have plenty to learn still. But the more you know about it, the more likely you can figure out what might be harming fish.

And the single most common cause of fish death is an ammonia or nitrite spike. These can happen if a fish dies and isn't found, or if something happens to the filter bacteria, and if you don't catch it, you may never realize it even happened, but later on you will lose fish. Ammonia doesn't always kill outright, it can simply shorten the lifespan, depends on how long and how strong the exposure was. I am not saying this is the reason your fry died.. but it is the most common reason of all for fish deaths.
 
KH is only carbonate hardness, it mesure everything contains carbonate like bicarbonate sodium, carbonate calcium... GH doesn't include carbonates but may include calcium... KH is the only factor for buffing PH.

GH is more for mineral utility like calcium.
 
As I said, I still have lots to learn :). I do know KH is the factor most important for buffering. Having fairly high KH in our water here, keeping conditions stable is not very difficult.
 
It will be more difficult to keep stability if you mix RODI+tap... You'll have to always do the same mix in a bucket before put in the tank...
 
Thanks for responding. I've been at this a year, studied until my head spins, and still don't seem to have a good enough understanding. I have spoken to seachem directly about buffers, forum members about confusion, and actually called Ice mountain to find out how their water is filtered before using it! My tap water is gh-28, kh-18, ph- beyond measure. Nitrates are 20 out of the faucet. I can't use it. I used 1/4 tap mixed with drinking RO bottled water for the kh (to keep ph from fluctuating). I do have a basic understanding of all that. My questions are based on my not understanding how the TDS could double!!!! I have a few ideas, but my limited knowledge leaves me guessing. The top off shouldn't have raised TDS that much. I wouldn't worry, as this is a freshwater angelfish tank, but they have red stress lines....
So....new, more clear questions:
1. I cannot find my rubber lip pleco. I mean, I haven't been able to find him after 5 days, and moving everything during a water change. If he's dead, could 1 fish's death cause this much of a raise in TDS? And, wouldn't that cause an ammonia spike also? (My ammonia is ALWAYS 0.
2. I change media every week. I have a sponge filter, a small HOB with just sponges, and a large HOB with 3 stage filtration. I change each stage (mechanical, chemical, and rinse bio-bag) once a month each, at separate times. (One week I rinse sponge, next I rinse bio-bag, next I recharge nitra-zorb). Purigen is only recharged if it's black (approx 3 months). However, I only clean the actual filter every 6 months. Could there be build up in the filter?
3. Could new fish raise TDS? It was mentioned that TDS is made up of anything non-water/hydrogen. I DID recently add 3 fish (after a 30 QT). I will feel so stupid if it's this simple. As I said, I wouldn't worry if I wasn't seeing the light angels with stress lines, which appeared the same day I noticed the TDS doubling).
4. I keep wondering about the bottled spring water, but I have MANY different tanks. They all get the exact same water mix. This 55g is the only tank this has happened to.
I'm hoping this really isn't important. I ask all these questions because I really want to understand my tanks, and what's best for them. Important or not, this TDS thing is driving me crazy! I've done 2 water changes now...and I'm recharging my purigen as we speak....but the TDS will not move! With a gh of 6, kh of 4, ph of 7..,,a 400 TDS doesn't make sense!!!! Especially since all other tanks are 200 or less (with the same gh/kh/etc. any thoughts are welcome!
 
I wanted to clarify:I WAS using a tap/RO water mix, that I mixed and tested before adding to the tank. I stopped because I think there's more problems with my tap water than just the nitrates and hardness. My angels have had many health issues over the past year. I now mix spring and distilled (measuring before adding). I need to figure this out, because it's quite expensive to buy water for more than weekly water changes. I'm doing tests now to determine if I can return to mixing tap water, but the TDS thing has delayed the process.
 
Not sure. I've never been told how to measured dkh. Please tell. And, probably. It's gh 25, kh 15. Heck, I don't drink the water myself!!! And I have to use lotion not to itch after showers. It sucks! I'm sooo close to buying an RO machine, but I'm doing an experiment with fry to determine if my tap is the problem first.
I reread the comments. A few responses: I test my water DAILY. It has never had nitrites since I cycled, and has never gone above 20 nitrates before a water change. I tested .25 ammonia 1 time after medicating the tank....long ago. I can never get an accurate ph reading. It's always lighter than the lightest option using the high range ph api liquid test kit, and darker than the darkest option for the reg ph test. I guess that it's around 7....because 6.8 is the highest on the ph, and 7.2 is the lowest on the high range. Is there any other way to test ph? Like adding kh and gh? Or something like that?

I pray the lady at ice mountain (the spring water I use) is honest. When I called, I was told there was NOTHING added to their spring water. She said carbon and 1 macron filtering to actual spring water was all they do. Interestingly enough, their 16 ounce bottled water test higher in TDS, gh, and kh than their gallon jugs. Anyone have a clue why that would happen? So if there's fluoride in it, I'll be so upset, but how could I determine that? I purposely avoid anything with "minerals added for taste"....

I always test replacement water, and match everything. That was why I asked if there was any way to KNOW what made up the TDS. Nothing changed besides that.
I thought phosphates might be a problem, because I have a lot of algae (some of it blue/green algae that I worry about because someone said that was a bacteria, not algae, and was harmful). but I bought a kit, and it tested very low.
I also tested TDS of all the water...tap is 490, distilled is 0, Ice mountain spring water is 81. Little bottles of ice mountain test at 120, and my tap water TDS does not change even after a week of setting out for a week. So, my main confusion was how adding the 80 spring, with the 120 small spring, and distilled would even ALLOW my tank to RAISE in TDS versus lower! Especially since kh/gh didn't change. Even my stupid decision to top off the water instead of changing it shouldn't have had that much of an effect. And, I've now done 3 water changes with the mix that equals 105 TDS. My tank is still 400. It just doesn't make sense!
Last thought....if the tetras made it through quarantine, and still brought a parasite to my tank....would the multiplication of parasites raise TDS? Or is it all a measure of water substances....not live fish/live parasites? Or an explosion of bad bacteria...could that do it? My light angels still carry the red stress lines. So, they aren't liking something....
Bottom line: how can I fix this? And, please tell me how to figure dkh. It would help me a lot when talking to people about problems, if I knew how to measure this. Thx so much. If I sound pissy, it's out of frustration. I really appreciate all the suggestions, advice and help! If I figure all this water chemistry out, I can provide the best environment for my beloved angels...and sell healthy babies (I DREAM of someday breeding on a professional scale!)
 
I would recommand you change country, here the water is GH 5 and KH 2... With 80ppm TDS in the tap !!!

Never saw any limestone accumulation on the tap plumbing.
 
Wow! I sure wish I could change countries!!!!! And, I would definitely use rainwater, but we don't get much. So...,how do you calculate dkh?
 
One more question. I was reading an article on ph/TDS/etc, and I'm again confused. (Nothing new). Could my water problem keeping fry alive, and current TDS issues be due to my tank having too many other substances that my test kits are mistaking for biocarbonates and carbonates...?
 
To mesure the KH, you need a KH test kit. KH is total carbonates... Sodium bicarbonate, potassium carbonate, calcium carbonate... All of these carbonates are included in the KH reading, this is what "Buff" the PH. GH is another thing, we use it more for mineral utility... Like calcium, etc...

I don't think a KH test will mesure unwanted substances... It's a titration test that kill carbonate to mesure it... For almost sure if you have high TDS water, you probably have hard water, so high KH, so high PH.
 
That's what I've been saying from the start....and where my confusion lies: I test- ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, kh, gh, and ph every single day with an api master liquid test kit (the vials and chemicals). I know what the numbers mean (gh: water my angels like, that's low in magnesium and calcium, therefore "soft"....while kh: I don't get it completely, but I knew it had to stay in the 2-4 range in order to buffer the water, and keep ph from crashing). I also test TDS (only at water changes) with a TDS Meter (stick that's placed in the water and reads a number). I understood that high TDS I'd bad, because that's everything except the water and hydrogen in the tank (all the crap, meds, excess food, waste, etc). I test all replacement water to match the tank exactly. I love these fish, and did not start trying to soften the water without some basic understanding...which is why I mix spring and distilled, instead of using buffers (the thought of a crash scares me). My kh is 3, gh is 6. Always. It never fluctuates more than 1 in either direction. The TDS was 220ish (that would change, but not much). I toped the water off instead of doing a water change (stupid, I know) with water that MATCHED the tank in all these areas. The next day I realized my rubber-lip pleco (just a little one) was gone, and the TDS literally doubled to 480. My kh/gh did not change (I tested it 3 times each to be sure). My thought matched yours : if TDS raised, something else must have also! The only other changes to the tank were: I added 3 small (1") buenos ares tetras, who'd been quarantined for a month, and the pleco disappeared. Neither of those things should have raised TDS so much, and it doesn't make sense that nothing else changed. That is my question: how is this possible? I've since done 3 water changes (with matched water), and recharged my purigen, even though it didn't appear to need it. The TDS has only dropped to 399. The fish show red stress lines. I'm sure such a huge change stressed them. So: I'm trying to determine what went wrong, so I don't lett let it happen again. Could something (bacterial, or parasitical) come in with the tetras? Would that cause TDS, but nothing else to rise? Or could my liquid test kit for kh/gh be picking up the wrong substances to give I acurate results? My beautiful, breeding angelfish are stressed, and I don't know why! This is a 55g tank. There's little aggression between the 4 angels, and only during breeding. The tetras occupy the middle of the tank and swim around the driftwood (I thought maybe they were stressing the angels with their quick movements, but that doesn't seem to be the case). If anyone has any idea how this could happen, please advise! The gh/kh and all other parameters just don't change, no matter how many times I test them! It's driving me crazy!
 
If TDS raise and KH/GH stay stable, it mean something else has been introduced into water. Increasing fish load will increase tank TDS before the water change, more fish = more food = more nitrates...

I won't test the tank water for TDS, only the tap. I'm waiting for my TDS meter since a month... When I'll recieve it, I'll mesure tap vs tank water (just curious to see difference), I'm sure if the tap water is 100ppm tds, the tank will probably be 200-300 tds... That's the bioload and decaying matter that increase thoses TDS.

For the unknown stress, you can go on AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor to see your fishs compatibility...

I already added a little bit of pure RODI water to my tanks, and all the fish were so stressed that I had to make a PWC with the tap... RODI water drop the PH very fast. If your fishs are stressed straight after a water change, it's because the PH may have suddently changed. In this case, the fish will start to swim very fast one side to another.
 
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