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Old 03-15-2003, 09:14 PM   #1
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Testing the water

Dear Friends,

Further my message "HELP" in which some of you gave me a very good advices regarding my problem with the change of water and the dead of my fishes. Now I have to made other change of water and I want to be sure that everything is OK, in order to no kill more little fishes again.

Today I tested the Water of my tank and also the tabwater and the measures that I got are as follows:

Water Tank Tabwater

PH 6.8 8.4
Amonia 0 0
Nitrite 0.5 0
KH 71.6 71.6
GH 125.3 89.5

The temperature is 76 F

What I have is a 20 galons tank with tropical fresh water fishes, at this time I have the following :

1 Bala Sharp
1 Zebra Dannio
2 Tetras
2 Red platies
5 Tiger Barbs
2 Cat Fishes

Would you please let me know if the water of my tank is good for my fishes, and what can I do with the tabwater that I have to put in the tank for the partial change.

I also have other problem now, and is because my water is very cloudy, white cloudy. and also there is a small odor.

The filter that I have is power filter 20 gallons, and I have a lot of natural plants in the tank. Yesterday I used 2 tables of Water Clear , "Tank buddies ", but did not work.

I have not move the tank, now I have almost 3 months with it and this problem just apper this week.

Your advices will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,


Leonclaro

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Old 03-16-2003, 02:37 AM   #2
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Hey there leonclaro

You said
"I also have other problem now, and is because my water is very cloudy, white cloudy."

Are you sure your Ammonia is reading 0 0 in your tank?
How long has your tank been set up?
how much of a water change do you do?

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Old 03-16-2003, 12:04 PM   #3
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Chris,

Thanks for you answer, first of all please note that the meassures of my previous message were too close, that is why I am retransmiting separatelly as follows:

Water Tank

PH 6.8; Amonia 0; Nitrite 0.5; KH 71.6; GH 125.3

Tabwater

PH 8.4; Amonia 0; Nitrite 0; KH 71.6; GH 89.5

Then the answer to your questios are:

Yes, the lecture was 0 or almost "0", the color of the water was almost clear.

I set up, my tank on January 1st. 2003, and I put the fishes and natural plants on it on January 10.

Each partial change of water I change 25% of the water .

I will be waiting for your advice.

Thanks,


Leonclaro
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:34 PM   #4
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Do you use such conditioners as aqua-safe or aqua- plus or Stress coat?
They remove the metals and contaminates such as clorine found in tap water.

Usually when you have Ammonia in your tank the water is cloudy thats why I asked
I did miss in your post how long you had it set up. Sorry about that
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Old 03-16-2003, 08:57 PM   #5
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The nitrite level, at the 3 month mark, makes me wonder how much you are feeding the fish. The cloudy water, in the absence of ammonia, usually indicates a heterotrophic bacterial bloom. When the bacteria runs out of nutrients, it will go away...usually with no ill effects on the fish. I would recommend cutting back on the feeding by at least 50% for a week. Then, once per day, feed only what the fish will consume in about 3 minutes. You might do a 25% water change to try and lower both the nitrite level and the amount of bacteria that is clouding the water. The only danger with the bacterial bloom is that the bacteria could lower the oxygen level in the water to the point that the fish can't survive. I think this is unlikely though. You may find that you need to supplement the feeding with some kind of sinking pellets for the catfish. Since you didn't mention what kind of catfish they are, I can't make a recommendation there. Other than the nitrite level, your water parameters look OK to me. I think it's a little odd that the GH went up in the tank while pH dropped, but your's is within acceptable parameters. I think I would take a water sample to the LFS and see if their readings agree with yours just to be sure.
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Old 03-16-2003, 11:49 PM   #6
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Chris and Loganj,

Thank you for your answer, as soon as I read your message, I change the 25% of the water. However, as soon I put the new water my bala sharp die. He was a little nervous and after that he act as if was druged he could not move and almost not swiming, after a few minutes, he turn down and die, and the water is still cloudy a little bit less but cloudy.

Anyway the same thing happens in the last two water change, I have lost 3 bala sharp, but the other times I also lost one zebra danio each time and in this case the only lost that I have until now is the bala sharp.

I take the new measures of the tank water and now what I have is:

PH 7.2; ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.25, KH 71.6 and GH 35.8.

After the water change I put to the water 24 drops of Aquari-Sol, this is a product recomended by my local store to reduce the bacterial.

This time I have not move any of the plant or hormanents, I also does not clean the gravel, in order to reduce the stress. Everything was gentle, but anyway my bala die.

I normally used after the change of water 2 teaspoon of instant water detoxifier named Aquarium Amquel make Kordon, this time I did not, in order to reduce the GH and also increase the PH.

Now I am a little afraid because I have not idea who reduce the PH which was increase to 7.2, I understand it have to be 7, because I have tropical fish.

I also would like to know how can increase the GH, which as per the instruction of my testing kit has to be between 50 and 100.

Would you please give me an idea?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Leonclaro
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Old 03-17-2003, 07:23 AM   #7
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To start with, I wouldn't worry about GH and KH at all right now. You stated that your tapwater had a GH of 89.5 which is fine. Also, your pH doesn't have to be exactly 7.0. It can range, with the fish you have, from 6.7 to about 7.7. The thing you want is to keep it stable. The fish can adapt to any pH within a certain range, but when the pH fluctuates up and down, they can never adapt and will often die. With your nitrite at .25, I would cut back feeding by at least 50% and see what the nitrite levels do. They should disappear soon. Then, try to get a pH that your tank will be stable at and keep it there.
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:00 AM   #8
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Leoncarlo
Quote:
I normally used after the change of water 2 teaspoon of instant water detoxifier named Aquarium Amquel make Kordon, this time I did not, in order to reduce the GH and also increase the PH.
You need to keep using this, to get rid of Chlorine in the new water you put in.


What are you using to change your water? You need to have a bucket that is for fish use ONLY, and has never had soap or cleaning fluids in it. You cannot use a bucket that you use for house cleaning or car washing.

Even though your tapwater is much higher ph, I dont think that is too much problem for 25% changes.

Do you match your tap water temperature to the tank temperature? Too hot or cold is not good and can shock fish to death.
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Old 03-17-2003, 11:44 PM   #9
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Logan and Corvuscorax,

Thank you very much for your advices, I am Desesperated and I have not idea what can I do, my fishes are dying after the change of water that I did yesterday.

Yesterday at night, few minutes after the change my last bala sharp died, and today when I wake up I found died one catfish and one barb tiger; and one tetra dissapear.

Because of that I put in the water the instant water detoxifier Aquarium Amquel. I think that this would be enough to made safe my water.

However, when return from my job, I found one tetra died and the other does not appear yet. All others are very slow and acting as drugies. So from 13 fishes that I have yesterday now I just have 7 and they do not look good.

And to do the thing worst, the water is still cloudy and each time is more cloudy that some time is very difficult to see where the fishes are.

Can somebody helpme!!!!. please let me know what can I do.

Thanks,

Leonclaro
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:18 AM   #10
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Leonclaro,

I took some time this morning to read thru both of your theads and read every post. I think we we take all of the advice given and try to combine it into one post with a good and complete procedure for your water changes we might be on the track to work toward a solution.

First. What concernes me some is the range of the PH readings. You say your tank water has a PH usually just under 7.0 and your tap water is consisant at 8.4 or higher. I suspect your using a PH Low range kit Just for conformation please take a cup of your tank water to your local LFS. Ask them to check your water for you. Most places will do this for free. Make sure they test the following:
  • PH Low Range
    PH High Range
    Ammonia
    Nitrite
    and anything else they want to test

I belive the low range tests tops out at 8.6 so I want to make sure that your PH is not acutally even higher than that.

You should find a product at your LFS called PH Down 7.0. I have never used this product but from what I hear its supposed to help lower your PH to a specific level. I am thinking that one of the causes of death is the change in PH from the tank water to the water being added.

The nitrite level should not exist but I can see that with your old method of cleaning the tank you probably delayed the production of good bactera in your tank because you was doing almost to good of a job in cleaning the tank.

It sounds like your filter is a hang on the back type with filter cartrages filled with carbon. If so then it might also have an overflow indicator. If you still have the documentation for the filter take a look at it. It might say something like "if you see water flowing over a given area then its time to change the filter media".

TRy not changing the filter cartrage every time but change it maybe every other time. ALso when cleaning the gravel only do about 1/2 of the tank at a time. What your trying to do is to keep some bactera in the tank. All bactera is not bad. In fact there is many benifical bactera that you want to maintain in your tank. This benifical bactera is what helps rid your tank of ammonia and nitrite.

Like Logan I feel you may be overfeeding also. Cut back to 1 feeding per day and make sure they eat all the food at that given feeding. If there is food falling and settling on the bottom of the tank or still floating on the top of the water after 5 min then you feed to much. If its floating try to remove it.

If you dont have a themomoter then you should get one. Its important to know the temp of the water in the tank. THis way when you do a water change you can try to as closely as possible match the temp with the new water as the water in your tank.

Get yourself a few 'fish only' buckets and anything else you use in the tank should be designated 'fish only'. I have some fish only towels, buckets, cups and pitcher. These items never are used for anything other than the fish. And they are never washed with soap. In stead they are rinsed out with declorinated water for the towels they are run thru the washer with out soap.

I like to have 2 buckets. 1 for dirty water and 1 for clean.

Fill your clean water bucket up and put a themoter in it. CHeck the temp aganst the temp of the tank. If its more than a few degrees off then put a small heater in the bucket to bring it up to temp. The temp in the tank should be around 75-78F.
Add your Amquel to this bucket and let it sit for at least 20min prior to adding it to the tank. Check your PH between the tank water and your new water. If the ph is off try to lower the PH of your new water to get it close.

PH is measured in a factor of 10. So a PH of 7.0 is different from a PH of 8.0 by a factor of 10. The amount of disolved oxygen in the water can affect PH to some degree so maybe you should add a bubble wand to your main tank. Or maybe add a Powerhead to make small ripples on the surface of the water. Oxygen poor water will have a lower PH than oxygen rich water.

Once you have the PH and the temp of the replacment water close to the main tank then you can syphon out 5 gal of tank water. Remember to only syphon 1/2 of your gravel bed for any given water change.

when your adding new water dont pour it in quickly. Instead slowly add the water either via a hose or by using a pitcher or large cup. I know this will increase the time to do the water change but it will help your fish out by not being tossed about or having the water change instantly in temperature.

Imagen waking into a walkin freezer and feeling the rush of cold air on your body. Thtas rather stressful. Thats what the fish are experencing if the water change water is colder than the water they are living in.

Good luck.

The cloudy water could be an algae bloom or it could be a bactera bloom. Either way they are not detrimental to your tank other than its appearance. I would suggest trying to get 1 thing worked out at a time vs trying to tackle several complex issues at once.

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Old 03-19-2003, 11:33 PM   #11
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Dear FishFreak and all who has responded,

Dear FishFreak and all who has responded,

Thank you all for all the wonderful advise that you have given me .

As a new tank owner I have found that it has been very rewarding to have the company of my fishes and to see how they grown. I have been very sadden by all the problems that i have had in the past weeks, specially that the beautiful sharks are no longer around. I have found out that indeed there are many factors that i have to keep in mind in order to provide them with a peaceful and longer life.

However, it has been real nice to have become a member of this community as you have all been very helpful. I am trying my best to remember all you have pointed out and i hope from my heart that I can save the few fishes that I have left.

I will continue to post my hardships and hopefully, your advice can be of use to others as well. In any case, I will probably need your advice again so i hope you check on me again.

Thank you so much,


Leonclaro
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:35 AM   #12
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One Thing to remember Leonclaro is that you also learn from mistakes. I'm sure we have all had hardships with fishkeeping and all lost many fish in the process of learning to make a peaceful enviroment for our fish.
It is a very rewarding hobby I was talking to my Doctor one day about my fish and she said that fishkeeping is known to reduce heart attacks,???
Although it seems to be stressful at time the rewards are great.
I know your saddness of losing your sharks, but don't let that stop you from keeping them again in the future.
Good luck
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Old 03-20-2003, 12:23 PM   #13
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