ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
allright, here's a question. i was doing some research on the fish you've been mentioning and some have said that you can put a discus with certain cichlids-is that true?
the 55 gallon challenge
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silvi-p
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
hi ishmael,
I'm afraid, when asked in a general manner like that, a general answer would be - no.
cichlids need hard water, discus are well in very soft water...
or are there exceptions? I'd like to learn about that, too.
kind regards,
silvia
I'm afraid, when asked in a general manner like that, a general answer would be - no.
cichlids need hard water, discus are well in very soft water...
or are there exceptions? I'd like to learn about that, too.
kind regards,
silvia
Coupla points:
Discus ARE cichlids.
And there are cichlids who do much better in soft water, such as angelfish and some dwarf cichlids (rams for example). Angelfish and Discus have similar water parameter needs, but there are disease concerns when housing the 2 together.
Discus ARE cichlids.
And there are cichlids who do much better in soft water, such as angelfish and some dwarf cichlids (rams for example). Angelfish and Discus have similar water parameter needs, but there are disease concerns when housing the 2 together.
Fruitbat
Aquarium Advice Addict
Angel Fish, Pterophyllum sp., will co-exist quite nicely with discus. The Uaru, Uaru amphiacanthoides is another South American cichlid that is known to do well with discus.
silvi-p...only the African Rift Lake cichlids really require hard water. Many of the Central and South American cichlids, as well as the river cichlids from Africa like their water closer to neutral or a little on either side of pH 7.0. However, most cichlids (excepting the African Rift Lake genera) are fairly adaptable as to water quality. Discus, Symphysodon sp., while still cichlids, are much more demanding as to their water parameters.
silvi-p...only the African Rift Lake cichlids really require hard water. Many of the Central and South American cichlids, as well as the river cichlids from Africa like their water closer to neutral or a little on either side of pH 7.0. However, most cichlids (excepting the African Rift Lake genera) are fairly adaptable as to water quality. Discus, Symphysodon sp., while still cichlids, are much more demanding as to their water parameters.
PH shouldn't be a major consideration for discus. Mine are doing quite well (even spawning),in a pH of 7.4. But keeping any other cichlid (including angelfish), requires a lot more care than a novice discus keeper should take on.
Finding the right feeding regiman would be the big trick. The discus will be out competed for food so special care would have to be taken to insure they are getting they're share. Discus are so easily stressed that it wouldn't be worth the risk or investment in time and money IMO.
However, there are some species from which the discus will actaully benefit. A small school of cardinals, rummy nose tetras or rasboras will give a school of discus a feeling of security. Clown loaches, corys and bristle nose plecos also make great tank mates. HTH
Finding the right feeding regiman would be the big trick. The discus will be out competed for food so special care would have to be taken to insure they are getting they're share. Discus are so easily stressed that it wouldn't be worth the risk or investment in time and money IMO.
However, there are some species from which the discus will actaully benefit. A small school of cardinals, rummy nose tetras or rasboras will give a school of discus a feeling of security. Clown loaches, corys and bristle nose plecos also make great tank mates. HTH
ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
allright guys, here's a possibility i have in mind, tell me what you think.
2 Red Turquoise Discus (8")
6 Green Cobra Guppies (2")
3 Blue Paradise Gouramis (4")
1 Tire Track Eel (2'6")
Assorted Snails
this is by no means set in stone. i made this list from www.liveaquaria.com, but i'll be visiting my LFS tomorrow and that could change everything. my only concern is that the Gouramis are semi-agressive, but would a 55 gallon give them enough space or will the still screw with everyone? if so, i saw some Opaline Gouramis that look pretty cool. it looks like i may have some room for more, so what else would you add? what about crayfish or invertabrates?
thanks.
2 Red Turquoise Discus (8")
6 Green Cobra Guppies (2")
3 Blue Paradise Gouramis (4")
1 Tire Track Eel (2'6")
Assorted Snails
this is by no means set in stone. i made this list from www.liveaquaria.com, but i'll be visiting my LFS tomorrow and that could change everything. my only concern is that the Gouramis are semi-agressive, but would a 55 gallon give them enough space or will the still screw with everyone? if so, i saw some Opaline Gouramis that look pretty cool. it looks like i may have some room for more, so what else would you add? what about crayfish or invertabrates?
thanks.
ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
oh yeah, i was trying to keep the price tag bellow $150 and this one clocks in at $135.32 without shipping. those discus come at a hefty cost, but, man, they're cool.
madasafish
Aquarium Advice Addict
The paradise gouramis are a bad idea, methinks.
They're a very aggressive species, and may outcompete the Red Turqs entirely for food. More importantly, they'll cause undue stress in the tank. The Paradise Gouramis I've seen at the LFS, and that I've read about, are a really ornery, territorial bunch. They have no qualms about nipping other fish, big or small.
Sorry to be the stern voice of doubt...
I don't think, Ishmael, that anybody on this thread has really stressed to you just how time-consuming and picky discus are. How much experience do you have with fish? If you are a relative newcomer, I'd *really really really* suggest that you think about another relatively picky species first. Build up to the Discus. I've been keeping fish for a while now, but don't think that I can commit to the schedule and work load that discus would require. There are just so many potential problems... And are you prepared for daily water changes, esp. if you have to go away for a week?
In addition to this, I think you may not understand how sensitive a fish discus are in relation to having other tank members. There really are only a very few fish that can be kept with discus because of their water, social and feeding requirements.
Think long and hard before getting yourself into a situation you might later regret, please. :? I know this isn't what you want to hear.
They're a very aggressive species, and may outcompete the Red Turqs entirely for food. More importantly, they'll cause undue stress in the tank. The Paradise Gouramis I've seen at the LFS, and that I've read about, are a really ornery, territorial bunch. They have no qualms about nipping other fish, big or small.
Sorry to be the stern voice of doubt...
I don't think, Ishmael, that anybody on this thread has really stressed to you just how time-consuming and picky discus are. How much experience do you have with fish? If you are a relative newcomer, I'd *really really really* suggest that you think about another relatively picky species first. Build up to the Discus. I've been keeping fish for a while now, but don't think that I can commit to the schedule and work load that discus would require. There are just so many potential problems... And are you prepared for daily water changes, esp. if you have to go away for a week?
In addition to this, I think you may not understand how sensitive a fish discus are in relation to having other tank members. There really are only a very few fish that can be kept with discus because of their water, social and feeding requirements.
Think long and hard before getting yourself into a situation you might later regret, please. :? I know this isn't what you want to hear.
ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
thanks Madasafish, that's exactly the kind of info i need. i'd rather know the real deal up front then have to learn the hard way.
i figured the paradise gourami's wouldn't work, but i picked the other fish because the website said they would go well together. i'll do a little more research on the discus before committing myself to them-it's one thing to lose a five dollar fish, but losing a $50 dollar fish is totaly unacceptable. i've been keeping fish for about a year with great luck, but it sounds like i'll need more than luck to keep a discus.
thanks for the advice.
i'm off to my LFS now, so i'll let you know what i find there.
i figured the paradise gourami's wouldn't work, but i picked the other fish because the website said they would go well together. i'll do a little more research on the discus before committing myself to them-it's one thing to lose a five dollar fish, but losing a $50 dollar fish is totaly unacceptable. i've been keeping fish for about a year with great luck, but it sounds like i'll need more than luck to keep a discus.
thanks for the advice.
i'm off to my LFS now, so i'll let you know what i find there.
ScottS
Aquarium Advice Freak
As noted earlier, the ideal tank mates for Discus are Cardinals and Rummy Noses. Other calm, peaceful tetras such as the Lemon or Glowlight would work as well.
I'd recommend only one Paradise to a tank. They are on the aggresssive side.
The eel is a horrible choice for almost any aquarium. Your Paradise and Guppies wouldn't be long for this world, and I'd suspect that the Discus would be stressed to death, if not consumed.
You mentioned your ph was suited for African Cichlids, how about your tap's hardness? That's as important if not more. The Discus requires really soft water. Life's much easier if your fish are comfortable with your tap's parameters, especially if you're not looking to buy a RO unit.
Working on things that have been mentioned here, try going for a regional themed tank. That usually assures some level of compatibility. As mentioned, think African rift (ie Malawi cichlids), or Amazonian (tetras and/or SA Cichlids), Blackwater (Discus/Tetras), central American (livebearers or Cichlids) or SE Asian (Loaches and/or Barbs) or whatever.
I'd recommend only one Paradise to a tank. They are on the aggresssive side.
The eel is a horrible choice for almost any aquarium. Your Paradise and Guppies wouldn't be long for this world, and I'd suspect that the Discus would be stressed to death, if not consumed.
You mentioned your ph was suited for African Cichlids, how about your tap's hardness? That's as important if not more. The Discus requires really soft water. Life's much easier if your fish are comfortable with your tap's parameters, especially if you're not looking to buy a RO unit.
Working on things that have been mentioned here, try going for a regional themed tank. That usually assures some level of compatibility. As mentioned, think African rift (ie Malawi cichlids), or Amazonian (tetras and/or SA Cichlids), Blackwater (Discus/Tetras), central American (livebearers or Cichlids) or SE Asian (Loaches and/or Barbs) or whatever.
TankGirl
Aquarium Advice Addict
My favorite way to select tank inhabitants is to #1) test my water to see what kind of fish are best suited. This is not hard and fast, but is helpful. #2) Go to the LFS and select a fish that always catches your eye, every time you go. Usually there is one kind of fish that always draws you to look at it. Go home and research that fish to see if it will do okay in your water. #3) Pick tankmates compatible with your "feature" fish.
I am not thrilled with liveaquaria.com's profiles, as some of them are not completely right. The profile for otocinclus, for instance, indicates they require a 30-gal tank, which is not true. I like fishprofiles.com, because they have very many fish and they are easy to find and reference. Planetcatfish.com is the place for any kind of cat. Badmanstropicalfish.com also has quite a few very excellent and detailed profiles, including first-hand comments from people who have kept that particular fish. Once you pick a fish, google it and read as much as you can, as you will see there are varying reports. That way you are as informed as possible.
Sorry for the lecture, but as you can see, I think a lot about such things...
I am not thrilled with liveaquaria.com's profiles, as some of them are not completely right. The profile for otocinclus, for instance, indicates they require a 30-gal tank, which is not true. I like fishprofiles.com, because they have very many fish and they are easy to find and reference. Planetcatfish.com is the place for any kind of cat. Badmanstropicalfish.com also has quite a few very excellent and detailed profiles, including first-hand comments from people who have kept that particular fish. Once you pick a fish, google it and read as much as you can, as you will see there are varying reports. That way you are as informed as possible.
Sorry for the lecture, but as you can see, I think a lot about such things...
Knowledge and experience have more to do with it than luck Ishmael. You've already made some statements that make me think you can do it. But my first advise would be to start with discus, and only discus. Don't make things more difficult by introducing other species right away.
2nd would be to spend that 150 bucks on 6 smaller discus (at least 2 inches). Discus do better in groups and you'd have the satisfaction of growing them out. Six adult discus in a 55 (even all by themselves), make an awesome sight.
ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
well, i was all but ready to abandon the idea of a discus tank, but then i discovered a new LFS not too far from home that had quite a few for under $30. i picked up a book on designing different aquarium habitats and there's one designed specifically for discus that recreates an amazon rain forest stream. it looks great.
so, i'm going to set up the tank and let it cycle and just sit back and think and research and then make a decision when the tank's cycled.
thanks for all the advice.
so, i'm going to set up the tank and let it cycle and just sit back and think and research and then make a decision when the tank's cycled.
thanks for all the advice.
madasafish
Aquarium Advice Addict
No problem. I don't mean to be discouraging, but do want to you to understand fully the work entailed in creating and maintaining a discus tank. If you think you'll be ok, then great!! Good on ya! If you're really serious about discus, I'd recommend looking into RO units and trying to rig yourself up a water change system for vacations. You could, for example, have the RO unit running, adding water to the tank, and a small syphon attached just above the desired water level with a constant pump going so as to suck out any water that gets over the necessary level... etc. Just a thought.
BTW, your avatar, though it's really cool, makes it really tough to read the responses on this thread and on any other thread you post in, since it expands the size of every Personal Information Box on the screen. Is there any way you could shrink it in size or choose another one? Sorry...
BTW, your avatar, though it's really cool, makes it really tough to read the responses on this thread and on any other thread you post in, since it expands the size of every Personal Information Box on the screen. Is there any way you could shrink it in size or choose another one? Sorry...
ishmael
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
madasafish said:
just noticed that.
it's gone.
Patience is the biggest factor when it comes to discus. I hate to disagree with madasafish but you don't need an RO unit unless your water is exceptioanlly hard. What is the KH, GH, And PH of your tap water?
What are you filtering with (I made some newbie mistakes here and it cost me in the grow out stage)? A big factor!!! I hope your tank is not set up in a high traffic area.
Finally, whet your appetite a bit. Check out the discus on aquabid.com. I've been buying from fcdiscus there and he is extremely reliable. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy from your lfs, just see what else is available.
Please let us know how you make out
What are you filtering with (I made some newbie mistakes here and it cost me in the grow out stage)? A big factor!!! I hope your tank is not set up in a high traffic area.
Finally, whet your appetite a bit. Check out the discus on aquabid.com. I've been buying from fcdiscus there and he is extremely reliable. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy from your lfs, just see what else is available.
Please let us know how you make out
smokeeater
Aquarium Advice Newbie
My vote goes for the rainbow setup. I had 3 dwarf neon rainbows for close to 2 years and they were some of the most beautiful fish. In both flourescent or natural light their colors would catch my eye. Completely non-aggressive and always playing. If you want a tank with a lot of color and alot of movement then what about some rainbows, some of the colored strains of danio's( I have seen yellow and blue)and what ever bright tetras you want. I think that would be a killa tank. but thats just my $.02
