The infinite PH machine

[Deminox]

10 gallon tank 8 tetras 2 sword plants 1 moss ball, dense (about 1.5 inches) colored substrate, 1 filter (aqueon 10) 1 airstone. 1 piece of driftwood. 2 small horned nerite snails.

Ph from tap is 7.5 to 7.6. Almost all tetras died, didn't add them until after cycled. Ph tested 7.6 before adding. Ph tested 8.4 after tetras wiped out.

Added ph down, waited 24 hours. Ph was 8.2, surviving tetras still alive. Added ph down, ph tested 8.0. Tetras alive. Added ph null, half dose one day, half dose the next. Ph tested 7.8.

Added 4 more tetras (to a total of 6, since so many had died.) Ph stayed at 7.8 all tetras alive.

Ph started rising again. 8.0 this morning. No water change during this time due to tap being such a huge ph difference (don't want to put fish into shock by adding in 7.6 ph water when tank is in the 8's.)

Why in a cycled tank is the ph on rapid rise? Tank temp is 78° for neons. Well lit. Full light spectrum. Still have some brown algea bacteria.

Also, have my big 29gal goldfish tank, ph is stable 7.6 in that. Same water source when changing water.

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[ImACoolguy]

Do you have any buffers like crushed coral? Sometimes after a tank finishes cycling the pH will crash.

Also pH chemicals are a changing the pH will only stress them more. Try using some natural buffers like driftwood and Peat Moss to lower your pH.


Caleb

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[Deminox]

Had coral, 1 piece, but it was starting to collect brown algea like crazy, and i read coral raises ph. Our buffer was tested and that came out fine. Have the one driftwood piece.

Only adding chems due to drastic spike, trying to keep it back level to the tap ph, i hate using chems but even with the driftwood it was raising fast. Once it stabilizes at 7.6 or 7.8 i don't want to add anything else, id rather have a consistent 7.6 to 7.8 to match replacement water ph..

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[Mebbid]

You are never really going to be able to get it down consistently without resorting to r/o water and mixing it with tap.

Anything below 8.5ph or so is perfectly fine for fish, the wild changes are causing much much more damage than the high ph.

 

[Deminox]

Mebbid, if i didn't have a goldfish tank that was a stable 7.6 with the same source for water replacement id understand that more. But wouldn't the 7.6 then spike up to 8.4 denote there is something abnormal happening?

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[Caliban07]

Mebbid, if i didn't have a goldfish tank that was a stable 7.6 with the same source for water replacement id understand that more. But wouldn't the 7.6 then spike up to 8.4 denote there is something abnormal happening?

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When you say the tap water is stable 7.6 have you left it out on the side over night and tested it again?


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[Deminox]

The tap water comes out closet to 7.8, but i always always add some conditioner (few drops per gallon) into the 1gallon jugs to remove excess chloride and chloramines and whatnot, and let that water sit for a minimum of 24 hours, both to let the temp get closer to room temp so i don't shock my fish with cold water, and to let the ph settle and the conditioner do its work.

THAT water tests between 7.5 and 7.7. Some small variance, we have older pipes. But that's close enough to 7.6 that when i add it to a tank it won't change the ph drastically.

The water inside my goldfish tank, that's a constant 7.6, sometimes a 7.7 when i test. Same jugs of water from the same tap from the same pipes.

That's why the rapid increase in ph in the 10gal has me confused.

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[Mcgolg76]

How long ago did you remove the piece of coral? Did Any pieces break off.


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[Deminox]

Removed the coral a week ago, there may have been a few small flakes but nothing of size and not much if there was any.

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[Mebbid]

What substrate do you use in the tank with ph problems?

 

[Deminox]

Same as the big tank. Hence part of my confusion. .

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[keegster803]

Did the tank cycle all the way? And what are your other water Params?


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[Deminox]

Tank cycled. Everything tests fine, we got the amonia cycle, nitrites, nitrates, ect. Everything is at 0. We had a hairline increase in amonia after adding the fish that lasted about 2 days, and by hairline i mean i had to stare at the test for 5 minutes to figure out if it was really above 0, it wasn't into the next color block at all, it was almost impossible to discern it from 0. But everything balanced..

Well, except for our infinite ph machine....

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[Mebbid]

What about dKH?

 

[trennamw]

What about dKH?

That. Need to know KH.

Peat and driftwood do not buffer, they acidify. Without knowing your buffering capacity it's impossible to say whether they would help or make it worse or do nothing.

Absolutely stop with the ph plus minus or neutral. Especially one after the other. Throw them away. Also resist the things labeled acid buffer or alkaline buffer.

Can you look up your city's water report?

I have crazy ph issues because my water is extremely soft AND the city adds something to make the ph quite high to protect pipes. So, doing huge water changes every few days my tank ph went up and down constantly till I figured something out.

Coral does buffer. It's appropriate if you know you have low KH and GH.

Crudely put, KH stuff keep ph from dropping and GH stuff provides micronutrients and together they affect total dissolved solids. And TDS and all the stuff you throw in the water affects osmotic pressure. So by adding lots of stuff you put the fish through ph swings and osmotic stress. I did it too a little over a year ago.

If you find out you have very soft water (low GH and KH) ...

Crushed coral is so so, for stabilizing ph if your KH is low. It's imprecise and messy too.

What worked for me, what I recommend ad nauseum, and what the biggest freshwater fish store in the country recommends (and uses in all their community tanks) is using a low dose of buffered cichlid salts to raise KH and GH to 3-4 "drops" or degrees each. Or up to the first colored square in a strip test. If you want a wider range of minerals for plants and fish you can use seachem equilibrium and api buffer max. I put 1/4 tsp each in a 5 gallon bucket of water to get KH and GH to raise 3 degrees each. You can phase it in slowly with several water changes.

I do have different tanks hold steady at different ph levels using the same water and same water change schedule. Dunno.

If your KH is fine then I'm out of suggestions. Just that it really sounds like a buffer issue and ph adjusters and peat and wood aren't buffers.




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[TheMacInnis]

@trennamw, I can't believe you wrote that on your iPhone. Subway ride or something? Boring meeting?

 

[trennamw]

@trennamw, I can't believe you wrote that on your iPhone. Subway ride or something? Boring meeting?

Hate sitting at the computer and, as the oldest of the millennial generation, I can type really fast with my thumbs!


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