thinking about buying a microscope - Aquarium Advice

08-29-2006, 12:25 AM

I want to learn more about fish disease so i can better fight it in my tanks in the future. I am also just something of a science nut, so i thought it would be nice to have one.

here is the one i am looking at: http://cgi.ebay.com/COMPOUND-BIO-MIC...QQcmdZViewItem

1.) is it crazy to consider doing gentle mucus scrapes on my fish if they are sick to see if i can find a cause?

2.) Does anyone know about microscopes?

3.) would this serve my purposes?

4.) does anyone else have a microscope they use to diagnose thier fish?

5.)where do you find comparison slides online?

6.) Has it helped you save any fish before?
Thanks muchly.

fish_4_all · 08-29-2006, 01:49 AM

After thinking about it for a while, I just can't come up with a reason why it would be much help with your fish unless you were able to catch something the day of the first infestation. Thats a lot of testing, a lot of scraping and a lot of time to try and use it that way. You can use it and give it a try but for the purpose of early diagnosis, I just don't know.

As for the type, If you want to do that much scientific research with your fish and enjoy it that much, get a double eye piece model with a better resolution. There are many models out there that will serve your ideas much better. If you get one, enjoy it, they are a lot of fun. As for specimens of parasites and other fish ailments, go to a University Web site and email some teachers and professors and see what you can get from them. The University of Washington would be a good place to try and not just because I live in the state. They are very good and are very happy to help, at least they have been for me.

BrianNY · 08-29-2006, 05:03 AM

A microscope would be practical for serious breeders only. In most cases fish have to be sacrificed and dissected in order to obtain slide specimens. The few maladies that can be diagnosed from mucus scrapings hardly make obtaining a microscope worthwhile.

If you're serious, the book "Discus Health" by Untergasser has a detailed chapter on the use of a microscope for diagnosing a wide variety of illnesses. A knowledge of fish anatomy, and some practical experience using a scalpel on such small creatures would be advised before purchasing a microscope.

JDogg · 08-29-2006, 10:07 AM

i agree with brian and fish-4-all, i do not see much use for a microscope in "every-day" fish keeping.

the microscope you linked to is ok, it is very similar to the kind i keep for my science students, it is a decent student microscope for introducing people to using one. it is not however the type I would get for my personal use... a decent microscope in my opinion will run you at least $300 unless you can find a good deal, also keep in mind microscope do not real become obsolete, even a used one can be a great microscope if it is kept up.

if you are still thinking of getting one, i would not, but that is just me... this would be a good one i think...
https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared...microscopes%5D

08-29-2006, 11:28 AM

i think my rationale is that an unknown illness killed a few of my favorite fish a few weeks ago. the fish showed no signs at all of any discernable illness, and their deaths seemed slow and painful. nothing i did helped them. i tried treating for parasite, ich, bacteria and fungus one at a time and nothing worked.

i want to know in incidents like this what killed them so i can fight it in the future.

hc8719 · 08-29-2006, 11:51 AM

dont get a microscope, why?

so ok, you put a sample under, look at it... now what?

08-29-2006, 12:00 PM

everyone sounds so encouraging. a microscope is a great tool for what you want to do, and i say go for it. there is a lot you can learn from your ideas, and they sound like good ones. you dont need a rationale for something that is interesting and will improve your knowledge.

BrianNY · 08-29-2006, 12:53 PM

We aren't saying that knowing how to use a microscope isn't interesting aquarious. Fishypeanut wants to use it to help identify problems and cure fish. That's not practical.

Fish, like most animals can suffer from a vast array of illnesses. Not every illness is treatable. At present there is no cure for most of the viral infections fish get. Plus, many fish deaths are due to diet, food poisoning, stress from being picked on. In this case the end doesn't justify the means.

malkore · 08-29-2006, 02:01 PM

And a microscope won't reveal basic genetic problems often caused by repeated inbreeding of captive raised fish.

I think Fishy's head and compassion are in the right place...but without proper education on what is 'bad' to see in a mucal scrape vs. the 'normal' bacteria and protoza you'd see, its just guess work and not real practical.

If you get the schooling to use the microscope in an effective way, then I think its a fine idea.

fish_4_all · 08-29-2006, 02:35 PM

I think you should go for it. But like it has been said, diagnosis is going to be tough but with the higher power microscope you will eventually be bale to identify just about anything. I have one and I have never looked at a fish anything under it but I should. I thought about using it to look at ambiotic fluid but my wifes water never broke at home so I was out of luck.

If you do decide to get one, I just recommend you get a good one. And $200+ for a descent one isn't unusual.

08-29-2006, 12:25 AM	#1
Guest Posts: n/a	thinking about buying a microscope I want to learn more about fish disease so i can better fight it in my tanks in the future. I am also just something of a science nut, so i thought it would be nice to have one. here is the one i am looking at: http://cgi.ebay.com/COMPOUND-BIO-MIC...QQcmdZViewItem 1.) is it crazy to consider doing gentle mucus scrapes on my fish if they are sick to see if i can find a cause? 2.) Does anyone know about microscopes? 3.) would this serve my purposes? 4.) does anyone else have a microscope they use to diagnose thier fish? 5.)where do you find comparison slides online? 6.) Has it helped you save any fish before? Thanks muchly.

08-29-2006, 02:01 PM	#9
malkore Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Nebraska, USA Posts: 6,540	And a microscope won't reveal basic genetic problems often caused by repeated inbreeding of captive raised fish. I think Fishy's head and compassion are in the right place...but without proper education on what is 'bad' to see in a mucal scrape vs. the 'normal' bacteria and protoza you'd see, its just guess work and not real practical. If you get the schooling to use the microscope in an effective way, then I think its a fine idea. __________________ Visit my aquarium pages - see specs on my tanks, and photos of how they've evolved My other passion: TheNinja 500R - updated 9/18/05

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08-29-2006, 01:49 AM	#2
fish_4_all Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aberdeen, WA Posts: 1,809 Images: 4	After thinking about it for a while, I just can't come up with a reason why it would be much help with your fish unless you were able to catch something the day of the first infestation. Thats a lot of testing, a lot of scraping and a lot of time to try and use it that way. You can use it and give it a try but for the purpose of early diagnosis, I just don't know. As for the type, If you want to do that much scientific research with your fish and enjoy it that much, get a double eye piece model with a better resolution. There are many models out there that will serve your ideas much better. If you get one, enjoy it, they are a lot of fun. As for specimens of parasites and other fish ailments, go to a University Web site and email some teachers and professors and see what you can get from them. The University of Washington would be a good place to try and not just because I live in the state. They are very good and are very happy to help, at least they have been for me.

08-29-2006, 05:03 AM	#3
BrianNY Aquarium Advice Addict Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 4,259 Images: 18	A microscope would be practical for serious breeders only. In most cases fish have to be sacrificed and dissected in order to obtain slide specimens. The few maladies that can be diagnosed from mucus scrapings hardly make obtaining a microscope worthwhile. If you're serious, the book "Discus Health" by Untergasser has a detailed chapter on the use of a microscope for diagnosing a wide variety of illnesses. A knowledge of fish anatomy, and some practical experience using a scalpel on such small creatures would be advised before purchasing a microscope.

08-29-2006, 11:28 AM	#5
Guest Posts: n/a	i think my rationale is that an unknown illness killed a few of my favorite fish a few weeks ago. the fish showed no signs at all of any discernable illness, and their deaths seemed slow and painful. nothing i did helped them. i tried treating for parasite, ich, bacteria and fungus one at a time and nothing worked. i want to know in incidents like this what killed them so i can fight it in the future.

08-29-2006, 11:51 AM	#6
hc8719 Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 1,932	dont get a microscope, why? so ok, you put a sample under, look at it... now what?

08-29-2006, 12:00 PM	#7
Guest Posts: n/a	everyone sounds so encouraging. a microscope is a great tool for what you want to do, and i say go for it. there is a lot you can learn from your ideas, and they sound like good ones. you dont need a rationale for something that is interesting and will improve your knowledge.

08-29-2006, 12:53 PM	#8
BrianNY Aquarium Advice Addict Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 4,259 Images: 18	We aren't saying that knowing how to use a microscope isn't interesting aquarious. Fishypeanut wants to use it to help identify problems and cure fish. That's not practical. Fish, like most animals can suffer from a vast array of illnesses. Not every illness is treatable. At present there is no cure for most of the viral infections fish get. Plus, many fish deaths are due to diet, food poisoning, stress from being picked on. In this case the end doesn't justify the means.

08-29-2006, 02:35 PM	#10
fish_4_all Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aberdeen, WA Posts: 1,809 Images: 4	I think you should go for it. But like it has been said, diagnosis is going to be tough but with the higher power microscope you will eventually be bale to identify just about anything. I have one and I have never looked at a fish anything under it but I should. I thought about using it to look at ambiotic fluid but my wifes water never broke at home so I was out of luck. If you do decide to get one, I just recommend you get a good one. And $200+ for a descent one isn't unusual.