too much air pump

[fishman3]

Is having a over size air pump bad.I want to use a 60 gallon tetra whisper air pump on my 29 gallon tank,would it be too strong

 

[jetajockey]

They make plastic air flow adjusters that slip in line with the air tubing so that you can adjust the flow. An even cheaper method is to tie the tubing into a knot and adjust the tension of the knot to adjust the air flow.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Definitely not too much.

 

[fishman3]

ok I thought it air would just be too strong for the valve and it would end up leaking thought it,THANKS

 

[NYgiantsRP]

It just puts more oxygen in the water, so the fish can breathe, you cant really have too much. Unless its just rediculous and they cant swim because there is so many bubbles.

 

[GTFCTIM]

Would too much affect plant growth?

 

[Fishguy2727]

Only if you are running CO2 gas, in which case any additional aeration will remove that CO2.

I have never run CO2, always run strong air stones and my plants have always done well.

 

[BBradbury]

Too Much Airpump

Good morning fish...

An airpump and airstone do a poor job of getting oxygen into the tank. But, keep it if you like the look of the bubbles. The reason an airpump powered airstone doesn't work well is because the bubbles have a very small surface. The bubbles rise quickly then escape, so there's little gas exchange. Even a lot of bubbles isn't much better. You need a constant current like a power filter makes.

So, if you want to get more oxygen into your tank and carbon dioxide out, then add a small power filter to the one you have.

One other note. If you have a well planted tank, then you don't want too much surface filtration. Power filters create a lot of movement at the water surface, so there's a lot of oxygen driven into the water. Oxygen is a waste product your plants produce, so it makes sense that your plants won't grow well in a high oxygen environment.

Just a thought.

B

 

[Fishguy2727]

Bubbles actively aerate the water. Gas exchange occurs at ANY air-water surface. The oxygen doesn't stop and think, 'Hey, this is just a bubble, I can't cross here, I have to wait until I am in the air above the water.' This is well known and accepted in other industries, but for some reason it just can't seem to catch on here (maybe because none of us are professionals, just hobbyists, regurgitating what we hear other hobbyists claim?). Bubble aeration is a strong tool in both aquaculture (real aquaculture, not hobbyist aquariums) and sewage treatment because the bubbles themselves actively aerate the water column.

 

[aqua_chem]

The bubbles themselves are not good sources of oxygen. They are relatively large and have a large surface to volume ratio, and are therefore not an efficient souce of oxygen. In addition, the rise very quickly and are in contact with the water for a relatively small ammount of time. The impact of a bubbler comes from breaking the surface area, allowing gas exchange with the atmosphere. This is the same thing that causes CO2 to offgas. Really, the bubbles don't serve much of a purpose beyond this. You can even use a bubble to remove surface scum for the same reason.

One other note. If you have a well planted tank, then you don't want too much surface filtration. Power filters create a lot of movement at the water surface, so there's a lot of oxygen driven into the water. Oxygen is a waste product your plants produce, so it makes sense that your plants won't grow well in a high oxygen environment.

This is pretty much wrong. Oxygen is produced as a byproduct of photosynthesis, but it is required for metabolism of the sugars created dring photosynthesis. Additionally, a well planted tank is already probably near the saturation limit of oxygen. That's why we observe pearling in our plants when they're engaged in photosynthesis: oxygen released cannot go into solution as it is already saturated.

 

[Fishguy2727]

So what is the minimum reaction time between water and air for aeration to take place?

I have seen multiple tanks saved multiple times simply because they had an air stone. I have seen tanks that started losing fish within only a couple hours of a filter stopping because they had no air stone.

The only hope someone has of proving the idea that bubbles don't aerate is showing that there is a minimum reaction time required between the air and water for aeration to take place. IF this were true then that would also apply to water flow at the surface of the tank. If there is a minimum reaction time then strong flow at a tank's surface would inhibit aeration by not allowing a long enough reaction time. Since I think we can all agree that is not the case, then it should be apparent that bubbles themselves do actively aerate. Smaller bubbles create a lot more surface area per volume of air. Larger bubbles have less surface area per volume of air but create more flow than smaller bubbles. Both can greatly increase overall aeration in an aquarium.

 

[nextgeneration40]

along the lines of reducing air flow from the pump I have noticed that if you put an in-line check valve it will drop your pressure a significant amount. Just an Idea

 

[aqua_chem]

So what is the minimum reaction time between water and air for aeration to take place?

I have seen multiple tanks saved multiple times simply because they had an air stone. I have seen tanks that started losing fish within only a couple hours of a filter stopping because they had no air stone.

The only hope someone has of proving the idea that bubbles don't aerate is showing that there is a minimum reaction time required between the air and water for aeration to take place. IF this were true then that would also apply to water flow at the surface of the tank. If there is a minimum reaction time then strong flow at a tank's surface would inhibit aeration by not allowing a long enough reaction time. Since I think we can all agree that is not the case, then it should be apparent that bubbles themselves do actively aerate. Smaller bubbles create a lot more surface area per volume of air. Larger bubbles have less surface area per volume of air but create more flow than smaller bubbles. Both can greatly increase overall aeration in an aquarium.

There is no minimum reaction time. Gases diffuse within bubbles, but it's not a significant amount due to the limited time that they are in a tank. The bubbles breaking the surface and the associated upwelling is what causes the major gas exchange.

 

[tarpon]

So would there be more gas exchange without an airstone diffusing it? The bubbles straight out of the tube are much larger and agitate the surface much more.

 

[Fishguy2727]

How do you know? That exact same idea, too little time, applies to anywhere aeration takes place, the surface of the tank too. That idea, if true, would mean that too much flow at the surface of the tank would prevent aeration because the water would pass by the surface too quickly for any significant aeration to take place.

 

[aqua_chem]

How do you know? That exact same idea, too little time, applies to anywhere aeration takes place, the surface of the tank too. That idea, if true, would mean that too much flow at the surface of the tank would prevent aeration because the water would pass by the surface too quickly for any significant aeration to take place.

You're thinking of the system incorrectly. Instead of thinking about water on an individual particle basis, think of it in bulk. Gases are dissolved in the bulk solution, but off-gassing or reentering the solution is not dependent on the speed of the water. Unless the water is doing something that prevents it from coming and going (like surface tension), it pretty much will come and go as it pleases.


The gas-water system is not like, say, a bus letting off at a station. Normally, a bus has to slow down to at least a low speed for passengers to disembark. This is not the case with gas and water. A better description for the gas-water interface would if passengers could get off a bus traveling at any speed. Therefore, no matter what speed the bus is going, passengers continue to disembark until the bus is no longer at the bus stop, or surface. But in the case of water, we have an entire highway full of buses, all on circuits that bring them past the bus stop, such that there is a constant stream of people getting off the bus stop.

Making analogies between the macro and nano scale is obviously difficult, but I hope this explains it.

 

[Fishguy2727]

I don't buy it. Blasting air through water will aerate. Throw people in a highway of buses and most won't be there after the buses pass.

If anyone has an oxygen meter I have an experiment that could help with this situation.

 

[tarpon]

Can someone answer my question?
Does bigger bubbles and more surface disruption= more oxygenation?

 

[aqua_chem]

Can someone answer my question?
Does bigger bubbles and more surface disruption= more oxygenation?

More surface disruption = more oxygenation

But I don't know about bubbles size vs agitation. I would think that many smaller bubbles would have I higher agitation, but I'm not sure about that one.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Larger bubbles do create more flow and surface agitation. Smaller bubbles create more surface area for the bubbles, but lower flow created in the tank.

Standard bubbles can create a massive flow. The 220 at the shop that used to house the 22" pacu and 18" catfish had more flow from the two air stones than from the FX5 because they had such a strong air feed.