UGF connected to Cannister filter???

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jgc8fan

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
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102
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
I've had a freshwater aquarium for 15 years with the exception of the last four when I kept a marine aquarium. Failing to successfully maintain (after sinking several thousand $$$ in equipment) it I decided to go back to freshwater.

So now I've got a 40 gal tank with power compact fluorescent lighting (120 Watts) with a Magnum 350 Bio-Pro cannister/Bio Wheel filter. What I'm noticing are the same problems I had with the marine setup seem to be coming back in fresh (uncontrollable green hair algae). I have algae eaters working overtime right now to get it under control.

I always had a UGF in my freshwater tanks, and never had algae problems... Matter of fact... When I first set up my marine tank I used a UGF for 6 months and the algae problem didn't develop there until I removed it (just a couple weeks after I removed it to be precise), so now that I'm back to freshwater I'm thinking of putting one back in, but I don't want lift tubes, and another electrical piece of equipment (air pump/powerhead). I had an idea about how to get around this and wondered if anyone else has tried it... I'm thinking of adapting a UGF to connect to the intake of the Magnum. It seems simple in theory, and the Magnum is powerful enough that it should keep the UGF plate fairly clean underneath while filtering out the garbage that I suspect is building up in the gravel. Yes... I know I should be vacuuming the gravel more often, but remembering my old setup with a UGF to a powerhead it never seemed to be a problem.

Anyway... Any opinions?

P.S. I know all of the UGF controversy already, but as I've had better results with one I choose to ignore it. :D
 
I think it would work really good. And I might try it sometime because thats even more bio filter!!!!! awesome idea.
 
FancyGuppyGuy said:
I think it would work really good. And I might try it sometime because thats even more bio filter!!!!! awesome idea.

That's what I was thinking... A piece of hose from the gravel vac, and a barb fitting from the hardware store that would adapt the hose to the lift tube of the UGF (Either a perfecto or undertow with a one piece filter plate). I'm thinking it would improve circulation as it would pull water from the bottom of the tank rather than 6" from the bottom, and the filter plate would probably allow more flow (and less prone to clogging) than the intake strainer would. It would also pull the waste that comes through the plate right through the carbon as well, so more waste getting to the filtration.

Of course... I'm checking here because I figure if it's such a good idea then why haven't any of the manufacturers put one out. Wonder if there may be any issues that this might cause (improper flow to filter, circulation, etc...)
 
Great experiment. If you proceed I'm interested in your results. Maybe try a reverse UGF, where output keeps detrius out of the substrate and free floating for canister intake.
 
I’ve been running a similar experiment in a 10 gallon tank. I have a under gravel filter that is operated by a Penguin HOB without a bio-wheel. I’ve had this setup running now for about a year. I get almost no algae, in fact I’ve only started to get some recently because some of my co-workers have been accidentally overfeeding the fish. The really weird part is that with only 8 1” fish in the tank it takes 3 month for the nitrates to get over 40ppm. We practically never have to clean the tank.

Now that being said I had a 29 gallon I was running with a under gravel filter with 2 power heads that provided 300 per hour gallons of flow. That under gravel filter was so dirty and hard to maintain, mostly because the bio-load on the tank was very high. I even had two auxiliary HOB filters and that tank was always dirty and hard to maintain.

I switched the 29 for a 40 tall and took out the UGF and put in plants. I put in a Ehiem canister filter (2026). I now use it as my sail fin mollie breeding tank. The bio-load is down significantly. I also have 7 ottos in there for algae control. The only algae I get is those little green spots that you can’t do anything about.

My point is I don’t think you have a problem with filtration as much a bio-load and feeding. You’ve got the same light setup I do on my 40 tall planted tank, are you going to put live plants in your new tank? If not you may have too much light. Another question is how may fish to you have and what kind? How often do you feed your fish and how much? I think these factors will control algae more than your filter setup.

I was also having an algae problem in my 40 until I reduced how much I fed my fish. I realized that the uneaten food was causing excess phosphates which caused algae to grow quicker than the pants could control the excess nutrients. I’ve found controlling algae is a matter of balance more than any kind of magic setup. My 60 gallon with 36 watts of light never has any algae. Now granted I have 9 plecos in there, not all of then eat algae, and several adult sail fin mollies. Once again it’s just a matter of balance, the right fish, the right food, feeding the right amount and the right amount of light.
 
You have algae because you have a ton of light, and a nutrient imbalance. And I see no mention of plants.

I'd suggest getting a CO2 system, and adding plants, and starting to watch your nitrate and phosphate levels, dosing fertilizers when necessary.
A UGF isn't going to change anything if you keep your current lighting system...you'll still have enough light ot fuel algae, and no plants to compete for the nutrients that the algae is thriving on.
 
I agree completely with malkore. No filter is going to remove the nutrients in the water column (except plants), and that won't work without a substantial amount of CO2 to help the plants. Throwing that much light in the tank is a creating an algae factory.

A simple and cost effective solution is to replace your current light with a 1wpg strip light.
 
back to the topic at hand great idea!!! And I have never had a problem with any UGF ive ever had.

I think either flow will work. All depends on what you want. ;)
 
BrianNY said:
I agree completely with malkore. No filter is going to remove the nutrients in the water column (except plants), and that won't work without a substantial amount of CO2 to help the plants. Throwing that much light in the tank is a creating an algae factory.

A simple and cost effective solution is to replace your current light with a 1wpg strip light.

Yah, that's what I was trying to saw. I agree with both you guys.
 
here's another consideration, I thought the outflow strainer for a filter was supposed to be 6 inches from the bottom so that if the filter ever leaked, it could not siphon or suction all the water out of the tank. There would always be 6 inches left to keep the fish alive till you discovered it. If your external filter sucks from the bottom, a leak could suck it dry? Just a thought. I never had a malfunction like that.
 
As far as the tank... It's not overstocked... I kept 4 silvertip tetras in it for the last 3 months after switching from marine just to let the tank settle in. This weekend I added a small red tail shark and 3 algae eaters, so I have 8 small fish in a 40 (actually 39 gal) tank.

As far as feeding... I feed them a very small amount twice a day, and make sure there has been no left over food on the bottom (that is visible at least). I went through the whole phosphate thing with my marine setup, and tried every technique (and every extra cent in my wallet) that I could find to lower phosphates with absolutely no difference in the amount algae growth. At one point I even tried feeding the fish only once a week, but to no avail (and not very smart IMO).

The light... Yes... The light is my marine tank light... A Coralife Deluxe Aqualight 24" CF with one 65W 10,000K and one 65W actinic light. I am intending to switch the bulbs out for 6,700K and I'm checking with Coralife to see if the unit can take 36 watt bulbs (don't see why not). I'm definitely not getting rid of the light... It's the best light I have ever owned.

I just never have had problems that some seem to have with UGFs. I know people with UGFs that have tons of waste under the plates, but mine had always stayed clean (maybe the brand I was using... El cheapo Regent from Wally World was better than I thought) With the exception of my first 10G tank I had always driven my UGF with a single powerhead.

The siphon point is well taken TomK2... Never thought of that. :oops: It "would" drain the entire tank if it leaked. It might be a good idea if I cut some small vent slots about 6" off the bottom (or maybe near the top so less water will drain) of the lift tube... It would cost a small amount of flow from the plate, but it would break the siphon before the tank drained completely.

As far as the UGF itself... I never really considered it as a bio filter... I've always had some type of wet/dry filtration to cover that. My reasoning behind UGFs has always been a belief that there are dead spots in the gravel, and that plus the waste that gets down there = bad IMO. I have always considered a UGF as a way to simply circulate water through the gravel to avoid this rather than it's filtration uses. I just don't trust places where the water doesn't move. In 15 years I never had a serious algae problem until 4 years ago when I removed it.

I actually would rather try a Penn Plax Undercurrent UGF, but they no longer make them, and I've only found them for 5 and 10 gal tanks in the few places where they do still have some in stock.

Edit: Just got an email from Coralife... They don't suggest using lower wattage bulbs, but instead setting one to run 10 hours, and the second to come on during mid day for four hours to create a realistic daylight cycle. No problem there as it's dual control, and each light is on it's own timer. Just need to get new bulbs now.
 
jgc8fan said:
As far as the UGF itself... I never really considered it as a bio filter... I've always had some type of wet/dry filtration to cover that. My reasoning behind UGFs has always been a belief that there are dead spots in the gravel, and that plus the waste that gets down there = bad IMO. I have always considered a UGF as a way to simply circulate water through the gravel to avoid this rather than it's filtration uses. I just don't trust places where the water doesn't move. In 15 years I never had a serious algae problem until 4 years ago when I removed it.

How long have you been using the CF light fixture? Were you going to get live plants? You know you don't have to run both lights at the same time, you can just run one bulb.
 
docrak said:
How long have you been using the CF light fixture? Were you going to get live plants? You know you don't have to run both lights at the same time, you can just run one bulb.

Not sure about live plants. Still thinking it ove whether I want them or not. I've been running CF for 3 years (bought it because I had corals, and couldn't afford MH). Unfortunately I do have to run both at once the way it's set up now. Without the actinic running the 10,000K looks like a sick green light that I can't stand. The actinic is just plain blue by itself. I did knock a couple hours off the 10,000K light though... I had it set to run for 12 hours with the actinic coming on an hour before, and off an hour after for a sunrise/sunset effect (now running thew 10Kk at 10hrs. I'll probably replace the actinic with a 6700K, and run that as the normal light and try having the 10,000K on for a few hours during mid day.
 
Back to the initial question -- if you are considering connecting a canister filter to an undergravel filter, I would definitely recommend the "reverse flow" system in which you connect your canister's output to the undergravel filter's uplift tube(s).
 
Fish Surgeon said:
Back to the initial question -- if you are considering connecting a canister filter to an undergravel filter, I would definitely recommend the "reverse flow" system in which you connect your canister's output to the undergravel filter's uplift tube(s).

Pardon my ignorance, but how would that help. I've heard of reverse mounting power heads on an UGF setup, but I can't remember the benefit.
 
Keeps waste suspended and available to canister intake. Could prevent reverse siphon problem mentioned previously.
 
That's another thing I was mulling over... While I've only found one or two stories about hooking the input of a cannister to a UGF... I've seen at least 10 stories of people hooking the output to one for reverse flow. As I'm only worried about circulation it might be better. It would solve a few issues I had. First the cannister would act as a pre-filter pushing clean water through instead of pulling dirty water into the plate... Second with reverse flow I could simply install a check valve on the output side of the filter thus solving the siphon issue, and also it would help push waste out of the gravel where the cannister could then catch it.
 
LOL After all this I've decided to hold off a bit on this idea... Maybe I'll try it later down the line if things don't improve. The algae eaters I added have done a better job than I expected, and there is only light algae on the gravel, and a few patches on the ornaments (everything in the tank was coated green 4 days ago). I wasn't sure they could do that much that fast (I'm used to slow snails and hermit crabs in marine tanks LOL). I've also added some live plants just to see what happens (some aponogeton and lilly bulbs since they are the only plants I have previous experience with). Might try the UGF whenever I take down the tank for cleaning sometime down the road. The water and bacteria are just getting settled in good, and I decided I don't want to risk unbalancing anything right now.

Thanks for the replies. I learned a few things that I didn't know about before.
 
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