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Old 07-18-2012, 06:52 PM   #1
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UPDATED API Test Results for 10 AND 60 Gallon...

Okay. Just finished running the API freshwater master tests on both the 10 and 60 gallons, both of which are still presumably cycling, and I'd like to report on them to get some analysis and feedback from you great guys and gals...

These tests come on the heels of a water change just done on the 60 gallon -- an approximate 20 or so percent this past Monday -- and, after subsequently getting what I perceived as alarming results on the 10 gallon just now, I have performed a 50% change on that tank, dosing of course with Prime prior to the fresh water going in...

Here is what I found:

60 Gallon Results (tank contains one Black Moor goldfish):

AMMONIA: 0.25 (definitely jumped a bit from the last reading -- but I don't know if this is from the Moor excreting more waste, which is clearly visible, or from the tank just naturally cycling and the ammonia level beginning to spike)

NITRITE: 0

NITRATE: 0

10 Gallon Results (tank contains three fancy goldfish; two very small varities and a somewhat larger Red Cap Oranda):

AMMONIA: 0.50

NITRITE: VERY high and VERY purple in color -- so it's on the high end of the range based on the color chart; the purple was almost alarming in shade, and I couldn't even get a clear reading on where it fell number wise...

NITRATE: 5.0-10 ppm

Based on the results of the 10 gallon, in particular, I did an immediate 50% water change on that tank -- but how do these numbers look now some two or so weeks into the cycle (the 60 gallon)? Was it good, or okay, that I did the immediate water change on the 10? Does the 60 need another change based on the ammonia reading? As I stated, I just did a 20% or so on this tank this past Monday...

As always, thank you everyone!
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:57 PM   #2
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They are both still in cycle. Keep an eye on the bigger one if the ammonia goes above that reading change water. The 10 is not good at all and keep testing everyday and change water as needed imo
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #3
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I agree here. Keep a close eye on the 60g & water changes will be necessary if the ammonia starts to climb any higher. I personally would do another wc anyway just to drop this number lower because Prime is only effective for a 24-48hr period of time. The heavily overstocked 10g is lethal right now even using Prime- remember, its only effective up to 2ppm. The damage nitrites cause occurs at a cellular level- they outcompete oxygen in a fish's hemoglobin (red blood) cells & fish is essentially physically starved of oxygen (to its organs, tissues, brain....). You may not see symptoms now but damage is happening. Ammonia is no less damaging either. Water changes, water changes, water changes on this small tank until you can get the nitrites under control (.25ppm or less). Once again, I would strongly recommend moving the two smaller fish to the 60g.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:12 PM   #4
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Thanks for the quick reply, both of you...

I realize the 10 gallon was in a very bad state -- thus why I immediately did the 50% change after taking the readings. But another part of me said "well, these numbers could possibly be normal because the tanks ARE in a state of cycle...and these numbers are supposed to spike before they stabilize..." so I thought MAYBE this was okay...

How can I tell if this is a matter of a cycle going through its process, or a matter of the stocking load causing off the wall test results? JLK -- I know you and many others want me to move the other two goldies to the 60 gallon, but I am afraid of leaving the Oranda alone in that 10...

Let's get down to it: I did a 50% change on the 10 gallon just now. Was that okay to do? And JLK is suggesting a change on the 60 as well -- even though I just did one on Monday, should this be a big or small change?

And what about NITRITE and NITRATE readings on the 60 -- are these normal and okay at 0?
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells
Thanks for the quick reply, both of you...

I realize the 10 gallon was in a very bad state -- thus why I immediately did the 50% change after taking the readings. But another part of me said "well, these numbers could possibly be normal because the tanks ARE in a state of cycle...and these numbers are supposed to spike before they stabilize..." so I thought MAYBE this was okay...

How can I tell if this is a matter of a cycle going through its process, or a matter of the stocking load causing off the wall test results? JLK -- I know you and many others want me to move the other two goldies to the 60 gallon, but I am afraid of leaving the Oranda alone in that 10...

Let's get down to it: I did a 50% change on the 10 gallon just now. Was that okay to do? And JLK is suggesting a change on the 60 as well -- even though I just did one on Monday, should this be a big or small change?

And what about NITRITE and NITRATE readings on the 60 -- are these normal and okay at 0?


How can I tell if this is a matter of a cycle going through its process, or a matter of the stocking load causing off the wall test results?
Most all overstocked tanks can do a weekly 50%-75% water change and not have this problem. As far as stocking the type of fish you have and tank size I'm not the one to ask.


And what about NITRITE and NITRATE readings on the 60 -- are these normal and okay at 0?[/QUOTE]


What tells me is that it has ammonia and no nitrates. All cycles tanks have some nitrates in it.

Let's get down to it: I did a 50% change on the 10 gallon just now. Was that okay to do

Sure was the best thing, you dont want the ammonia and nitrates to get over 0. If it is a water change is needed

- even though I just did one on Monday, should this be a big or small change?

With it not being that high I would think a 30% change would take care of that. What jlk is saying is the prime is done working so you should do a water change before it gets worse. I didn't even think about that till he said it. And I agree with it

Your water should be reading 0 ammonia 0 nitrites under 40 nitrates if its above those numbers a water change is needed
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:39 PM   #6
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On the 10g, its the cycle process and the stocking overload. Due to the hefty bioload in the 10g, it may not ever properly cycle if it remains heavily overstocked. Theres only so much real estate for beneficial bacteria to grow on in a 10g and the bacteria that are in there are being a bit overwhelmed. The oranda will be fine by himself and you will decrease the bioload tremendously if you move the two smaller fancies which will make the tank easier to cycle instead of almost impossible. He will benefit in the long run by not being exposed to high toxin levels.

A 50%wc on the 10g is fine. Retest your numbers in about 20mins- if they are still high, do another and even possibily a third. As I said, personally, I would do a water change on the 60g. Others may not agree but as you already know, I am big on water changes! The zero nitrites & nitrates on the 60g just indicates you have not started the cycling process on the 60g yet. You have ammonia but you havent developed sufficient bacteria to convert it to nitrite & nitrate yet.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:15 PM   #7
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Unless they are really small, I agree 3 fancies in a 10 is going to be hard to get cycled. I was growing out 30 cory fry in a 10g and after awhile as they got bigger I just could not keep the nitrIte levels down, so I see where JLK is coming from with this. It's a tank that I keep cycled with 4ppm of ammonia so I know it had established a good colony of bacteria.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McFadden View Post
Most all overstocked tanks can do a weekly 50%-75% water change and not have this problem. As far as stocking the type of fish you have and tank size I'm not the one to ask.
Huh?

Quote:
What tells me is that it has ammonia and no nitrates. All cycles tanks have some nitrates in it.
Okay -- so let me get this straight because it seems a bit contradicting to what is said at the end of your post: a cycled tank will have SOME nitrates in it, and will NOT be at a cold "0" ppm?

Quote:
Sure was the best thing, you dont want the ammonia and nitrates to get over 0. If it is a water change is needed
But aren't these parameters going to reach beyond 0 when the cycle begins?

Quote:
With it not being that high I would think a 30% change would take care of that. What jlk is saying is the prime is done working so you should do a water change before it gets worse. I didn't even think about that till he said it. And I agree with it
I understand what (she) JLK was saying regarding the Prime -- at any rate, I did a 10 or so percent change on the 60 just to maybe get some of that ammonia down...

Quote:
Your water should be reading 0 ammonia 0 nitrites under 40 nitrates if its above those numbers a water change is needed
Oh, okay -- my mistake; earlier I had written (above) that something you suggested here was contradicting something else you had written, but I see now you say nitrates should be UNDER 40, not at a constant 0...

My mistake and apologies.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk View Post
On the 10g, its the cycle process and the stocking overload.
Okay. THAT'S what I wanted to know.

Quote:
Due to the hefty bioload in the 10g, it may not ever properly cycle if it remains heavily overstocked.
Oh, Jesus H. Christ on a Saltine Cracker...don't tell me that...you're saying I may NEVER achieve a healthy cycle in this smaller aquarium?

Quote:
Theres only so much real estate for beneficial bacteria to grow on in a 10g and the bacteria that are in there are being a bit overwhelmed.


Quote:
The oranda will be fine by himself and you will decrease the bioload tremendously if you move the two smaller fancies which will make the tank easier to cycle instead of almost impossible. He will benefit in the long run by not being exposed to high toxin levels.
But that wasn't our plan initially -- we purchased the two small goldies so the Oranda would have company as well as to use them as a test of his aggressive behavior, after being taken out of the 60 when he attacked the other two fantails that died. We wanted to cycle the 60 again slowly, and would have done it WITHOUT fish if we didn't need a place for the surviving Black Moor to go...now, you're asking me to move two more fish into the 60 that's still cycling, leaving the Oranda alone in the 10, which still doesn't address a problem that still exists and one I don't have a clue as how to tackle: The Oranda is most definitely growing -- there is distinct, obvious body swelling/growth (not unhealthy/sick swelling), development of the fantail and wen/Red Cap growth. Even if we keep him in the 10 gallon alone, he is quickly outgrowing this tank -- yet he STILL shows aggressive tendencies towards one of the smaller fish with him at times, chasing him and nose-diving right into his behind like he did before he killed off the other two in the 60. What am I supposed to do with this guy?

Quote:
A 50%wc on the 10g is fine. Retest your numbers in about 20mins- if they are still high, do another and even possibily a third.
I didn't retest after the change...

Quote:
As I said, personally, I would do a water change on the 60g. Others may not agree but as you already know, I am big on water changes!
Per your tip, I went ahead and did an approximate 10% change on the 60 gallon just to get some of the ammonia down and some fresh water into the Moor's tank; I didn't, however, retest with the API kit...

Quote:
The zero nitrites & nitrates on the 60g just indicates you have not started the cycling process on the 60g yet. You have ammonia but you havent developed sufficient bacteria to convert it to nitrite & nitrate yet.
I see; thank you...so, what's the procedure for the 60 gallon at this point? Just keep testing and doing the changes as necessary?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser View Post
Unless they are really small, I agree 3 fancies in a 10 is going to be hard to get cycled. I was growing out 30 cory fry in a 10g and after awhile as they got bigger I just could not keep the nitrIte levels down, so I see where JLK is coming from with this.
Thanks Laser...

Well, two of the fancy goldies are very small -- perhaps a tad bigger than feeder size -- and the third is a steadily growing, aggressive and spunky Red Cap Oranda (please see some of my horrendously long threads throughout this forum about what happened previously to my 60 gallon goldfish tank due to this one Red Cap)...so the sizing I didn't think was a problem here...

Until I saw those ridiculously off-the-charts results today...

Quote:
It's a tank that I keep cycled with 4ppm of ammonia so I know it had established a good colony of bacteria.
Not sure if I know what this means...
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