Using fish to cycle a tank.

[Cinder]

Ok - I realize that I'm new to this particular site but it has shocked me to see that people very seldom tell newbies that cycling with fish is cruel and shouldn't be done. (It's not Ok to expect fish to die so someone can cycle their tank.) The fish should be taken back to the store and the cycle done without them. Then - after around a month or so when the cycle is 100% completed fish can be added to a ready to live in tank. How can people learn this and spread the word if the experienced aquarists don't come right out and say it? How many fish have to die because people don't know this (the LFS isn't likely to tell them) and we don't explain it to them?

[Fishyfanatic]

Actually, the fishless cycle method is highly pushed on this site. I don't know of anyone who pushes to cycle with fish.

[crazyred]

And sometimes, people buy fish before they realize what's involved with cycling a tank and by then, it's too late. It's nice to THINK that you can just take a fish back to the store, but there are MANY stores out there that won't take fish back just because of ignorance.

In that case, it is the responsibility of experienced aquarists to help the person get the tank cycled with as little fish death as possible. The world is not perfect and people just have to do the best they can with what they have. JMO.

[Cinder]

Agreed crazyred - people buy fish because they don't know better. I expect that is usually the case (I was one of them when I started). And, you're right, some fish stores won't take fish back because of ignorance.
However, if you explain to the store that you didn't know about cycling the tank and point out that they didn't tell you many stores will agree to take back the fish knowing that you are going to come back in the future and get more fish. (At least around here that is the case - maybe it's just here.)
So my comment is that when I read threads about people having already bought their fish no one here comes right out and says: "That was not a good idea and can you take them back?" If they have tried to take them back and can't then I totally agree that you guys are great in helping them through a fish cycling process.

[GGIII]

I cycled with two Rainbow Shark and heavy planting without injury to the fish but, if you have the patience, fishless is the way to go.

[Devilishturtles]

I agree with FF. We preach and praise fishless cycling here at AA. I think most newbies read over our articles first and know about fishless cycling. If someone does decide to cycle with fish, we try and teach them better ways and help them keep their fish alive.

Welcome to AA, btw Cinder.

[Zagz]

I agree that if you go through the many threads, fishless cycling is the recommended method. While it is cruel to the fish, I feel it isn't good for the newbies that got the fish before they knew what they were getting into to be made to feel badly. I recommend several extra water changes if the fish can't be returned to the store.

[tbonem91]

I agree Cinder, but to be honest, a lot of people simply don't care. When people come looking for advice, and are told "take back your fish" most don't. In pretty much every thread that get started by a newcomer who doesnt know about the Nitrogen cycle, someone does mention that it would be best to take the fish back and do it fishless. I've only seen one or two people actually do it. Most people start their first tank as a decoration and the realization that they should empty it and wait to add fish for 4-8 weeks doesnt sit well with them. In these situations, many people welcome the advice of checking water and changing it daily if needed, because then they can keep their decoration. Helping people learn and avoid unneccessary deaths is the driving force behind helping people cycle with their existing fish. Many times, people will either get frustrated and refuse to learn, driving them out of the hobby early, or will get seriously interested and will apply knowledge learned to future tanks. Unfortunatly, especially on the internet, you will always get those that come looking for advice and refuse to take it, continually doing whatever they think is right and searching for someone, even a single person, to aknowledge their ways - they usually ignore all of the experienced people and end up losing fish after fish after fish.

I definitly don't want to come across as harsh, because your intent is very well-intended and compassion is very much needed in this hobby -- but know that most of the people here feel the same as you and there is only so much we can do on an internet forum.

[Cinder]

Thanks guys - it's just good for me to hear you all say this. I am so attached to my fish that it hurts when I see them "used" by others just because they are fish.
And I agree, advice always needs to be given non-judgementally and with only helping in mind.

[Burks]

A well planted tank can be cycled with fish.

I wouldn't ever cycle a tank with only a few plants in it though. That's really pushing the limits. I didn't use the fishless cycle and those fish are still alive and kicking. Healthy too. I also have a moderately well planted tank and did every other day water changes of 10%.