Very high pH, < 2 g/kH

[jdsunflower]

I have some questions concerning pH.

Most postings here warn against using commercial buffers, but my pH is 9 and I think it would be cruel to keep fish in this (mine is an acid pool FW 40B)--I've tried to use vinegar (Halstad's suggestion), but fear problems...the water does seem cloudy and I'm not sure if this is a bacteria bloom, or the vinegar...

Anyone have a similar situation, and what have you done about it?

Also, if you use vinegar, can you still use a tiny touch of bicarbonate soda to raise the hardness, as well as Epsom salt and potassium for minerals (my plants are gasping really)?

Would a mix of phosphates and vinegar minimize the harm of each, or make things worse?

all help appreciated,
JD

[neilanh]

9? really? what test kit are you using? I've never heard of water having a pH that high before, wow!

[jdsunflower]

hi,

yes, 9, with any test kit (I've had tanks of some kind for years now). Apparently it's a city-wide problem for fishkeepers (local fish society site). It is highly resistant to adjusting (takes a double dose of phosphates or quite a lot of vinegar). Is there a problem using bicarbonate AND vinegar? (could this make my fish sick?)

I know many people say they don't bother adjusting it, but I feel that that's just too high for the fish I wish to keep...and when I buy catfish (or rasboras for that matter) they always come in water that's been adjusted to about 7.2...so I aim for about the same.

The problem is that that requires a lot of phosphates (I would prefer not to use--aren't those hard on catfish too?), or vinegar. Hence my q's re potential harm, or cloudiness, due to vinegar. I know that with a certain level of co2 it can precipitate (or something like that). I don't think my co2 levels are nearly high enough for that...

Another question is that if it's high because it's already dosed with bicarbonate, why isn't the KH higher than 2?

This job takes a bit of a chemist, doesn't it?

As per a previous post, I had to take down my tank--fish were in bad stress and distress, bugs of some kind (dragonfly type creatures found), real reason unknown (water parameters within normal limits even with new test kit) but looks like salt poisoning (phosphates?) All rasboras have died. My poor fish--the catfish are hanging on, but looking quite mangled...fins clamped all day, but now they're showing signs of appetite. Love those corys...The snail is alive, but barely (moves in slow motion).

Someone posted that I didn't have to tear down the tank, but I couldn't find the cause, so didn't want to take the chance...Disinfected, building it up again.Took out plants in case there were parasites. Will need to cycle again, so will pick up ++++ plants first. Hope my 5 corys will survive. Water a bit cloudy, fish looking comfortable tho...

jd

ANY ideas on how to proceed, what I'm doing? I'm in the dark here...

[Purrbox]

The fact that your KH and pH readings don't mesh, mean that something else (like phosphate) is buffering the pH. If you truly feel the need to mess around with your water parameters, your best bet is to get an Reverse Osmosis unit. This will strip the water of everything. You can then either add back in some waste water or dose with various supplements to get the desired GH/KH/pH as well as vitamins and minerals. Any other way you might use to lower your pH is likely to destabilize it causing much worse issues than just leaving it alone.

[jdsunflower]

Well my sense was that the city is raising the pH with bicarbonate to limit erosion of pipes. I guess they could be using phosphates...I personally have used vinegar instead, while adding a touch of soda to help buffer it. "Walsted says"... I'd hate to do the RO thing. I'm as high tech as I'm comfortable. I thought things were going quite well for 2-3 months there, fish seemed happy in vinegar-adjusted water...
Think I'll try the low tech approach one more time.
Geez, I don't know if others are as uncoordinated as I (and as likely to move too fast), but my floors have never been so clean as since I've had an aquarium. (I don't get to use the Python to fill it due to pH adjustment...). Think I'm learning to slooow downnn...

[DSenn]

Get an R.O./D.I. unit.

[block2]

We use indian almond leaves in our betta tanks to lower the PH

[jsoong]

If the city is using bicarbonate to raise the pH, you'd be seeing a high KH. They are likely using NaOH to do that (mine use that), but it is strange that they raise it that high (high 7's should be good enough to inhibit corrosion.) You might want to check your water dept.'s publish water quality numbers to see what is actually in your water.

Vinegar + bicarbonate = CO2 + acetate.
So basically any bicarbonate you added will escape as CO2 and no longer act as buffer.

Adding phosphate or acetate (as in vinegar) are both doing the same thing. You introduce a 2nd buffer to alter the pH, so I don't see any different in the effects on fish. Of course, adding lots of phosphate might get you into algae problem....