Water Changes for a New Tank

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melisphillips

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
17
Location
San Francisco, CA
I have done quite a bit of research and have decided to buy a 10 gal (biggest I can get-very small apartment) with UGF and a powerhead. I want to cycle with a few neon tetras. Can someone tell me how often I should be doing water changes while my tank is cycling?

Also, (this is a dumb question but would be dumber not to ask) I am a bit confused about water changes. When you initially add water to the tank do you treat it after you have added it to the tank? When doing a water change do you treat it in a bucket? :)

One more....how often should you vacuum the gravel during cycling? I do not want to harm any helpful bacteria by sucking them away.

Thanks!!
 
Yes, I am replying to my own post. I have just been exploring this forum more and I have discovered that UGFs are not recommended. I am on a budget and have no plans for live plants any time soon. Are they really that bad????

Thanks!
 
The problem is...that they don't really work. Mostly, you end up with a layer of gunk at the bottom of your tank (Well, thats what i had...along with perpetual ammonia problems). I have a 10g (also very small apt), and am using a hang on the back filter...soooo much easier.

I think the added expense is worth having a clean tank...and I don't think it really adds up to much anyways.

If you want to keep the UGF...I've read that you can rig an airline to blow all the gunk up through the gravel...
 
Under Gravel Filters

I think UGF's look attractive because it seems like they can keep water flowing under the gravel, which is good for the biological filter. But according to my research they don't work well as a biological filter, as sweetsuvvyb has mentioned. I was told that they will just build up gunk between the filter plate and the bottom of the aquarium. Try a Marineland Bio-Wheel filter. It hangs from the back of the tank. It is not expensive -- one for a 2-20 gallon tank is around $12 to $15. You will need to change the filter cartridges periodically (it alerts you when it's time to change it). The cartridges provide chemical and mechanical filtration.

I had a Eclipse 3-gallon tank with a bio-wheel in it, and I was very happy with the bio-wheel's filtration. I had a betta in the tank, which turned out to be a mistake. The betta simply didn't like all the current generated by the water coming out of the bio-wheel. But I was happy with the bio-wheel and would get another one if I set up another tank besides bettas.
 
If you really have to use fish to cycle a tank I would stay away from neons. they are not the hardiest of fish and you will end up loosing most likely.

And yes, the UGF isn't super. If you bought it as a separate piece maybe you can take it back. For a 10 gallon tank pretty much any of the smaller HOB are a good idea. The Aqua Clear Mini is a also a great choice and does well on my tank.

While you say that you are not going to have a planted tank the choice of a UGF will mean that you will have a hard time changing your mind in the future. The HOB will allow you much more flexibilty in the future.
 
and as per water changes...I don't know if there are any real guidelines, since the cyclying is such a unique process....some people don't ever get real high levels of ammonia or nitrites, and can just leave the thing alone....other times, you need to do 10-20% changes every day to keep the levels dilute. Most important is that you go buy a test kit, so you can get a good feel for whats going on.

When I do water changes, I usually add my de-chlorinator to the fresh drawn water and shake it up a little to get it mixed in, rather than the tank directly. When you initially add water, you can add the dechlor directly to the tank, since there won't be any fish in there.

gravel vac...well, gravel vac when the gravel is dirty. You might suck up some bacteria....but you'll also be getting rid of a lot of the gunk that can cause ammonia spikes.

good luck!
 
I've only had my 12 gal tank for only a week and I havent change d the water once. I had 2 rainbow tetras and then added three more three days later to speed up cycling. I feed the fish every other day until the tank is cycling properly (the lfs advised me to do so). So far my all levels are normal and there is no urgency for me to change my water. I have no real plants in my tank either. My only problem is ick. I bought 2 fish from petco and they were infected. today is day 3 of the treatment.
 
I've never priced UGF's but a HOB filter for a tank that small is not expensive. The Penguin Bio-Wheel Mini is only $12.39 on www.drsfostersmith.com and its rated at 100 gph. That should be plenty for a 10 gallon tank.
 
tank cycling and water changing questions

I've had a new tank for about a week now, so it is cycling now too. I've only cycled one other tank before, so I'm still new at this but I'll try to help!

There's really no set schedule for doing water changes. You just have to do your ammonia test and see how high it is. If it's not high, leave it alone -- you want SOME (not tons!) ammonia in there so the bacteria can feed on it. The bacteria will feed on the ammonia and break it down into nitrates. (right, everyone? I'm still somewhat new at this so please correct me if I'm wrong!) and that is what gets your cycle started. I use a nitrate test kit too so when my water shows the presence of nitrates, then I know my cycle is beginning. Too much nitrates, though, are bad too -- don't let them get too high (refer to test kit chart).

If the ammonia is moderate I would do a 25% water change and check again the next day. If it's high, do a water change every day (25-50% depending on how high) to bring the ammonia down. Changing this much water will slow your cycling, but it's better to have healthy fish!

Another poster gave you good advice about water changes. I also mix up my clean water before putting it in the tank. I filled the tank up with tap water when it was new (no fish in yet) and treated all the water in the tank, and stirred it around a little, let it sit for awhile, then plugged in the heater. For water changes now, I use a bottled water gallon jug, fill it with tap water, shake it a little, let it acclimate to room temp a bit so I'm not stressing the heater and the fish with cold tap water, add my declorinators, slime protectors, and a little bit of salt even though they are fresh water fish. I use a vac to remove a gallon of dirty water into another bottled water jug, and then add the new water.

If you have a heater, you should unplug it because they usually have a minimum water level that must be maintained, and when doing changes the water may fall under that minimum level. You don't want to risk the glass cracking.

I just removed some water using my vac, but I didn't sweep the gravel. I will check again tomorrow, and I will probably need to sweep in the next few days. You are sweeping up some good bacteria, but it's better to get out some of the fish waste that makes the ammonia rise! Also, the bacteria can live on the plants and decorations' surface too, so don't worry about removing too much good bacteria. If your ammonia is high then sweep more frequently. Check your dirty water bucket or jug and see how much waste you are removing. If you're not getting too much, you could just do a surface sweep, and save the heavier, deeper sweep for a little later, depending on your ammonia levels.

The thing that I had to learn for controlling my ammonia levels was learning how to feed the fish correctly! At first (in my other tank) my ammonia levels were way too high. I was feeding too much, and I had too many live plants. The LFS said you don't have to add plants gradually like you do with the fish. But I don't know about that -- I think adding a lot of live plants right away added too much ammonia too.

So far, after about a week, my tank parameters are ok -- fingers crossed! Good luck with your tank! I hope this helped some!
 
Just one correction regarding the cycle...

Your ammonia levels will rise initially, then (hopefully!) the bacteria that "eat" the ammonia will start to proliferate. At that point...you will have a spike in nitrItes. NitrItes are just as harmful to your fish at high levels as ammonia...it is absorbed through the gills of the fish, and get's "stuck" in their blood, so they cannot get any oxygen. So even after your ammonia levels drop, you have to continue to test the water (for NitrItes), and do water changes if the levels are too high. Adding a little salt can also help if your nitrite levels are too high, it impedes the absorption. The last step in the cycle is the growth of the bacteria that convert NitrItes into NitrAtes. When your nitrIte levels are dropping, and you're seeing nitrAtes...you're in good shape!!
 
Hi sweetsuvvyb,
Thanks for the explanation! I know you want all three things (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites) to be 0 or low. But I keep getting nitrates and nitrites mixed up!

I have an ammonia kit, of course, and I also have a nitrate kit. It's what the girl at Petsmart gave me. I couldn't really stay to ask a lot of questions because all the animals in there bother me (highly allergic to dogs, cats, birds, etc, and the fish-only shop around here just closed.)

It seems like a nitrite kit would be more beneficial than a nitrate kit right now, right? Is one kind of kit better than the other -- test strips dipped in a vial of tank water vs. the tank water in a test tube that you add drops of test solution? Thanks!
 
A nitrite kit would be excellent to have. I prefer the kind where you have a test solution (for nitrites its acetic acid....essentially vinegar), but I don't really think it makes a difference. With any test, its good to run it first using distilled water, to get a "baseline" or zero reading.

You can also get a pretty good feel for your water quality by it's clarity and odor.
 
*nods and agres with sweets*

Since ammonia and nitrItes are deadly to fish, and cannot be seen by the naked eye, having a test is the only way to know if they are in the water (heh, unless the ammonia levels are so high you can smell them but I don't think you want to go there). I find the vial ones a little more accurate.
 
Nitrites and nitrates

Thanks, Allivymar and sweetsuvvyb! :D

I will go get a nitrite test kit tomorrow. I hope it isn't too high. I do have some aquarium salt to add if it is. One article said the nitrites will peak around day 14, and this is day 9. So I need to be prepared to add some salt and do 10% changes to help the fish through the peak!
 
Nitrites

Hi again, :)
Since my last post I thought of something to add. My tank is a 5 1/2 gallon with 2 bettas. I have a Jungle Jr. dirt magnet sponge filter. I didn't even get any ammonia until day 5. Today (day 9 -10)the level is 4 ppm. I'll do a water change now. So I bet the tank isn't near the nitrite peak yet. I already added 1/4 teaspoon salt to the water when I made it up. How much more salt can I add if necessary? Maybe 1/2 teaspoon per gallon more? (which would be about 2 1/2 teaspoons, since the actual water in there is only 4 1/2 gallons.) Thanks!
 
I wouldn't really worry about the salt, unless you see that your fish seem to be stressed. The salt actually only aids once you have higher levels of nitrites, it prevents their absorption through the gills (although I guess it's used generally to ward off infection)

Also...there is no real timeline for the cycle...despite what the article said. You have to just keep checking all your levels, and make your own timeline!

4ppm does seem awfully high for an ammonia level, though....keep a close eye on that, and your fish. You might need to do some major water changes if that level doesn't get down!

good luck!
 
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