Water hardness

[HeathB]

Ok, so this might be a really dumb question, but bear with me. What would happen if I were to mix one part softened water (from the house) with one part hard water (from the well pump outside)?

Would this create any kind of balance, or does one tend to overpower the other?

 

[Lowryder]

hmm, I mix RO water and tap water all the time. Dont know if it the same. I am a nerd but not a chemist.

 

[mgamer20o0]

how is the water softened?

when you mix ro and tap you are diluting your tap. you lower the ph and the hardness. as long as you keep with the same mixture all the time its fine. the real problem is when you change mixture around then you will have a ph always swinging. its better to have a stable ph then one that swings. i have really hard water with high ph and keep all my fish in the tap. really it should be fine for most fish.

 

[HeathB]

how is the water softened?

when you mix ro and tap you are diluting your tap. you lower the ph and the hardness. as long as you keep with the same mixture all the time its fine. the real problem is when you change mixture around then you will have a ph always swinging. its better to have a stable ph then one that swings. i have really hard water with high ph and keep all my fish in the tap. really it should be fine for most fish.

With those bags of Norton salt pellets.

 

[mgamer20o0]

i would just use the well water. the salt isnt always the best for fish. (generally speaking some are fine others dont react well with salt)

 

[jsoong]

A salt exchange softener is not a good thing to use for fish. <Esp. Sodium salt exchanger.>

What the ion-exchange softener does is to exchange Na for Mg & Ca. And it has to add 2 of Na for each Ca/Mg to maintain electrical neutrality. Us humans call water rich in Ca/Mg hard water, so removing them is good enough for washing & such. However, fish sees the osmolarity (ie the amount of "stuff" in the water). Ion-exchanged softened water actually has higher osmolarity than un-softened water (because it is full of sodium), so it is worse than using your well water plain.

If you well water is really bad, you can mix in reverse-osmosis water. This softening process removes all the ions, without adding any salt back in, so is a much better source if you want to doctor your water. However, unless your well water is REALLY bad, it is generally better to stick with unadulterated tap water. <less chance of errors, no risk of pH crash, etc.>

 

[HeathB]

A salt exchange softener is not a good thing to use for fish. <Esp. Sodium salt exchanger.>

What the ion-exchange softener does is to exchange Na for Mg & Ca. And it has to add 2 of Na for each Ca/Mg to maintain electrical neutrality. Us humans call water rich in Ca/Mg hard water, so removing them is good enough for washing & such. However, fish sees the osmolarity (ie the amount of "stuff" in the water). Ion-exchanged softened water actually has higher osmolarity than un-softened water (because it is full of sodium), so it is worse than using your well water plain.

If you well water is really bad, you can mix in reverse-osmosis water. This softening process removes all the ions, without adding any salt back in, so is a much better source if you want to doctor your water. However, unless your well water is REALLY bad, it is generally better to stick with unadulterated tap water. <less chance of errors, no risk of pH crash, etc.>

Well, I've never seemed to have any problems with the soft water before, and my tests show the well water is pretty darn hard. I don't think I can really afford any extra equipment either right now, so I might stick with the soft water for now.

I have heard though, if you use co2 in a planted tank, it lowers hardness? Would that be worth a shot when I eventually start using co2?

 

[mgamer20o0]

how hard is the well and what fish are you keeping though?

 

[HeathB]

how hard is the well and what fish are you keeping though?

The well water tests at about 280ppm GH. Guppies, a betta, a black skirt tetra, zebra danios.

 

[HeathB]

Been about a half a year running the tank with the danios and the tetra and I haven't lost any fish, and the guppies (and used to have dojo loaches till they got too big) tank has been running a little over a year and no probs. I was more curious about how the plants will take the gh levels, but from some reading it looks like I might be able to dose whatever may be missing from my soft water. I'll wait a while and see how things go though.

 

[mgamer20o0]

about the same hardness as my water. plants are fine at the higher gh levels over all.

 

[HeathB]

about the same hardness as my water. plants are fine at the higher gh levels over all.

Another noob question, but what exactly is the difference between gh and ph? I always assumed hard=loads of alkaline and soft= loads of acid (which despite feeling better in a shower always gives me the mental image of someone melting cause of the acid)

 

[jsoong]

Your well water is not bad at all, about the same hardness as mine. Should have no problem using that straight.

There are 2 forms of hardness:
GH - general hardness - amount of Ca & Mg in the water
KH - carbonate hardness - amount of carbonates (CO3/HCO3) in the water, also called temporary hardness, as it comes out of solution (scales in kettle) when water is heated.

pH - degree of acidity (or alkaline) in water - technically the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration.

KH is normally associated with pH. High KH = high pH.

GH, what most people think of as hard water is only important when washing, as it binds to soap & render it ineffective (soap scum). High GH is usually associated with high KH, so is usually associated with high pH. But not always. A solution of CaCl2 or MgSO4 (Epsom's salt) for eg, would have high GH but low (zero) KH.

 

[HeathB]

Your well water is not bad at all, about the same hardness as mine. Should have no problem using that straight.

There are 2 forms of hardness:
GH - general hardness - amount of Ca & Mg in the water
KH - carbonate hardness - amount of carbonates (CO3/HCO3) in the water, also called temporary hardness, as it comes out of solution (scales in kettle) when water is heated.

pH - degree of acidity (or alkaline) in water - technically the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration.

KH is normally associated with pH. High KH = high pH.

GH, what most people think of as hard water is only important when washing, as it binds to soap & render it ineffective (soap scum). High GH is usually associated with high KH, so is usually associated with high pH. But not always. A solution of CaCl2 or MgSO4 (Epsom's salt) for eg, would have high GH but low (zero) KH.

Thanks so much. That really cleared things up for me. So contrary to what I had thought, the well water would be particularly good for my plants with that ca and mg, am I right? And the ph actually referring to acid/alk is showing up reasonably neutral.

 

[jsoong]

Plants actually need some Mg & Ca, and people have to add it if the levels are low. So yes, your well water sounds like it would be just fine.

 

[HeathB]

Alright, so I've just noticed what looks to be a pretty thick coating of calcium covering part of my heater. Cause for concern or can it wait to be cleaned till Friday (pwc day)?

 

[HeathB]

Never mind I guess. I took a small bit of paper towel and it came off the heater pretty easily.