Water Hardness & Cardinals / Angels

[chrism]

Hi all, got a little question...

Water Test Results: [acronym:5671b97013="General Hardness"]GH[/acronym:5671b97013] 180mg/L, [acronym:5671b97013="Carbonate Hardness"]KH[/acronym:5671b97013] 120mg/L, [acronym:5671b97013="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]PH[/acronym:5671b97013] 8-8.5,

I'm going to be ordering 50 Cardinal Tetra's later on today, the guy at the store has advised me that if i don't soften my water i will loose half of them. I bought 15 (from another store) a while ago and have only lost one, a few months ago, had them for ages now...

I dont really want to get into [acronym:5671b97013="Reverse osmosis"]RO[/acronym:5671b97013]/[acronym:5671b97013="Deionization"]DI[/acronym:5671b97013] water.

I'm a little cautious about using rain water as i wouldnt know whats in there... i live on the outskirts of a small town i'd guess its ok but who knows!

Should i look into 'Softening Pillows' would 'Peat Fiber' work? reading through my filter manual it says that angels south american cichlids & tetras rather this type of water, I'll be adding angels next month, and possibly my bolivian rams...

what do you guys think, the rams i've got are doing fine in my current water... Half of me thinks i shouldn't mess, half thinks i should try it so that i don't loose too many cardinals, and if they'd prefer it then why not...


Help please?

[TomK2]

Peat in a filter has been described as one of the best ways to lower pH and soften water. It works gradually, and for a long time. I know your Angels won't mind the hardness if hard alkaline water is the norm for your region. The angels will have become adapted to it, as most are captive bred in the aquarium trade. However, I have read that cardinal tetras are wild caught, and have a high mortality. I would think that any success with them would require softer and more nuetral pH, but I have never kept them, only read about them.

Any experienced cardinal tetra owners? Wait, you already are an experienced cardinal owner, you've had 14 of them for months!

[Fishyfanatic]

When I used Peat it was an instant pH dropper. I added it to the filter and tested pH about 6 hours later and it had already dropped by 1.2. How large is the tank that you are adding them to?

[chrism]

its a 40 US Gallon, 150 Litres fishy, what was your tank size? how much did you add? 1.2 sounds like a substantial drop! is it? When i add the cardinals the only fish that will be in the tank is a large common plec and about 10 cardinals :S i couldn't catch the other little buggers from my smaller planted tank !

I run a fluval 304 so i've got plenty of options regarding comparments and things, i could remove some floss and add a small amount peat fibres (not the concentrated granuals :S)

"Any experienced cardinal tetra owners? Wait, you already are an experienced cardinal owner, you've had 14 of them for months!" - well yea, i had no idea they were so sensative tho When i bought them, the [acronym:12a30a2145="Local Fish Store"]lfs[/acronym:12a30a2145] said, these are soft water fish, you'll need to aclimitise them slowly... ok thanks

but i don't really fancy spending 50 quid and have them all die... so i guess peat's the way to go, provided it wont drop my [acronym:12a30a2145="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]PH[/acronym:12a30a2145] dramatically, i wasn't sure if it softened water too, but it does so bargain!

Originally Posted by Fishyfanatic

When I used Peat it was an instant pH dropper. I added it to the filter and tested pH about 6 hours later and it had already dropped by 1.2. How large is the tank that you are adding them to?

Did it discolor your water? How did you add it? I have some peat moss and i wanted to use it to drop my pH but im afraid of the discoloration and i don't know what to put it int hat will be fine enough so it doesn't all leak into the water... or could i mix it into my substrate?

[Fishyfanatic]

It didn't discolor my water at all like I heard it would. I added it to my 55 [acronym:9cb72bb28a="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:9cb72bb28a] Community tank. I did add quite a bit all at once though. The pH drop was not a good thing. It happened so fast I'm suprised the fish didn't die from shock. I put it into a mesh bag and added it to the canister filter, that way all the water ran over it as it was being filtered. Maybe that also helped keep the water coloration at bay, I put it before the filter floss.

50 Tetras is alot to add to a 40 [acronym:9cb72bb28a="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:9cb72bb28a] tank, especially all at once. I'd be more concerned about losing them due to overcrowdidness (not sure if thats a word) or the ammonia spike.

[greenmaji]

bio-load spike.. the tank will likely go though at least a mini cycle and cardinals are not hardy enough to survive that.. you need to add them more slowly.. fewer at a time..

[Fishyfanatic]

Isn't 50 Tetra's way too many to add to a 40 [acronym:1cb091d5b9="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:1cb091d5b9] tank with the other fish inhabitants? They reach up to 2" in size.

[mattrox]

I have Cardinals and have never really worried about hardness. Like with most fish they survive quite well at a varietly of water parameters. BUT I have not had water parameters like yours. It may be beneficial for you to add peat.

If you test daily for ammonia and nitrate and are prepared to do daily water changes you might get away with adding 50 at once. It depends on the size they are when you recieve them. Remeber if you get HIGH ammonia or nitrit readings you might be up for 50% changes per day.

[chrism]

thanks for all the responses, i wasn't sure if 50 was too many, im still not 100% sure if it's too many even without the bio-load issue. i didn't get round to ordering them yesterday so still got time before i do, i might go for 25... and maybe see how i feel then... I was going to get them small.

I will get some peat and try that, i've got all the test kits so i'll monitor everything daily,