What do you think of this theory...

[sabrinarichard]

So I was talking with my lfs manager about my new fry tank (I wanted to buy new because I had found nothing online then I found one really worth it) and about cycling... I told him they were currently in a 1.5g, no filter, air stone, 2x 50% daily wc with water from one of my cycled tanks, but was fed up and it was time to get a real tank.. So then I asked about cycling since the filter wouldn't use the same media as my others (no matter what filter I use., either my aquaclear mini or the filter that came with it elite stingray 15) and he told me he would do it the super slow way.. Let me explain.,
He says that since it's fry they won't produce even close to the same amount of ammonia as full grown fish, the bb isn't as important (especially since I stick to at least 50% wc weekly and would use half of water from my cycled tank to do so...) so all I should do is put a bit of gravel and deco from the cycled tank and let things happen slowly (I have read about this technique while researching but wasn't convinced)
My fry are mostly live bearers and are pretty hardy (they just don't die lol),,

So what do you think of all this ?
Thanks

 

[Mebbid]

No... Just no.

Fry are much much more susceptible to ammonia than full grown fish and as such really need filtration. You can make a 100% safe, cheap, and simple filter out of a water bottle, gravel, cut up filter media, and an airstone. Should take all of 10 minutes to make and the only tool you need is a razor blade to cut slits in the bottle.

Optimally, if you are serious about raising fry they should get a 10g tank minimum, daily 10% - 20% water changes (more if nitrates are high), kept at the upper limit of their temperature range, and 3+ feedings daily.
All of this will maximize their growth rate and size.

 

[sabrinarichard]

Didn't you read? I had a 10g, it started to leak, then I had a 1g ( THAT I DID 2x 50% WATERCHANGES A DAY) , then: as soon as my fry reached 4 day They would go to the main breeding tank, they wee big enough to not be eaten. But I finally found a good tank to replace my 10g, I have 2 filters as said in main post to sustain 2 15g... What I want to know was if it was the fry produced way less ammonia compared to adults (I know for a fact they produce almost nothing, if I only analyze their waste) that's why I'm wondering if this is viable. I'd like to add that I have Donne MANNY fish-in cycles and KNOW how to do fishless.. My fry in my 10g have been fine, my fry transferred in my 15g are doing great, they are rocking the new tank filled with cycled water.
Thoughts...
Edit: I have a 55g community, all tanks cycled Of course. + 30g planted (20 plants) and for breding, 5g trained betta that is alone with shrimp.
What I am asking is really about the the waste and ammonia levels (I always monitor my tanks but have never started a fry tank fron scratch they were always cycled by another fish before )

 

[Mebbid]

. I told him they were currently in a 1.5g, no filter, air stone, 2x 50% daily wc with water from one of my cycled tanks,

He says that since it's fry they won't produce even close to the same amount of ammonia as full grown fish, the bb isn't as important

(especially since I stick to at least 50% wc weekly and would use half of water from my cycled tank to do so...)

so all I should do is put a bit of gravel and deco from the cycled tank and let things happen slowly

Wow, offended much?

I did in fact read, and posted above are the highlights of what you posted.

With what you posted you alluded to doing a weekly 50% water change on an uncycled fry tank.

Fact 1 - fry are super sensitive to ammonia.
Fact 2 - the majority of ammonia production in tanks comes from uneaten food rather than fish waste. If you really want I can link studies to prove this when I get to a pc.

Having previously bred livebearers my suggestion is to rig a diy sponge filter using cut up media from your established tanks. A simple precaution preventing the fry from going through unnecessary ammonia spines.

Furthermore, using water from a "cycled" tank does absolutely nothing as the BB colonize the filter media rather than the water column. It's doing nothing hut adding nitrates to your fry tank.

 

[herp_mommy]

Fry are very sensitive to ammonia. I wouldn't try to raise any in a tank that wasn't completely cycled. They can all perish in a matter of hours. Water has almost no bb in it. You'll need filter media or tons of seasoned live decor.

 

[sabrinarichard]

Wow, offended much?

I did in fact read, and posted above are the highlights of what you posted.

With what you posted you alluded to doing a weekly 50% water change on an uncycled fry tank.

Fact 1 - fry are super sensitive to ammonia.
Fact 2 - the majority of ammonia production in tanks comes from uneaten food rather than fish waste. If you really want I can link studies to prove this when I get to a pc.

Having previously bred livebearers my suggestion is to rig a diy sponge filter using cut up media from your established tanks. A simple precaution preventing the fry from going through unnecessary ammonia spines.

Furthermore, using water from a "cycled" tank does absolutely nothing as the BB colonize the filter media rather than the water column. It's doing nothing hut adding nitrates to your fry tank.

I said daily, not weekly. That's why I asked if you read.


and I will add some deco and gravel in a net, I can't do media because of the different filters, my other tanks are 0-0-0.1 I think I rarely test nitrates but it's very low.. I know bb is not in the water and have no gravel so I pick up the uneaten food at the end of the day. My water in my 1g was perfect but that didn't last long I don't like 1g for anything, that was a lat minute solution because my 10g was leaking, I'm not offended but I would never do 50% weekly in those conditions, only in my 55g and 30c and of course my new tank is filtered and ready to go, just no bb yet, buy they did fine in the 1g for a month (as I said they just stayed max 4 days to a week) they are in the tank and doing fine it's been about 16hours.. I can always cycle it another way by taking them elsewhere for a week, but ammonia wouldn't really be a problem (I think) as I monitor every day almost for my fry... It's a passion and a little money maker as my fry mostly come out beautiful..
Edit: I was more wondering about the slow cycle.. I have read on that before but wasn't convinced, the fry have to stay about 5days now, and after I could let my other batch in the tank as a snack and cycle it after.

 

[Mebbid]

(especially since I stick to at least 50% wc weekly and would use half of water from my cycled tank to do so...)

It says 50% weekly here.... just sayin

But what I was trying to explain about making your own filter is perfectly feasible.

You can take an established filter pad, cut it into pieces, and stick it in the bottle. Makes an efficient easy filter and is what I did for all my fry tanks.

 

[sabrinarichard]

Weekly on my 55g, daily in the 1g

 

[sabrinarichard]

I told him they were currently in a 1.5g, no filter, air stone, 2x 50% daily wc with water from one of my cycled tanks,

Now, if I do do that, I guess the bb will slowly accumulate in my aquaclear mini, should I take the fish out ? (The bottle filter)

 

[sabrinarichard]

It was more to say that my water in my 55g is good since I do 50% wc a week and my parameters are perfect

 

[Mebbid]

If you run some sort of filter with established media in it I wouldn't bother pulling the fish out of the tank. You are just wanting to avoid any unnecessary ammonia or nitrite levels in the tank.

 

[sabrinarichard]

Ok, I never cycled a tank with used media, could I just put it in a net or something in my tank ? Or does it have to be in my new filter, because I don't really know where I could put it in either of my 2 filters I could use for a 15g.. Will my tank have an ammonia spike like normal cycling? My taught process was that I could never cycle a tank with fry in so to use fresh water and be on top of my parameters (and the guys told me that it would do a slow cycling with no spike if I used gravel from the other tank changed every few days)... I have also lots of decor I could add, does it have to come all from the same tank ? Or I could use a little from every one of my tanks ? Thanks I maybe went a bit fast, I was way too fed up of the 1g and just taught if I started the way I was keeping the 1g under control plus a filter should be fine.. And I wanted to believe in "slow and safe cycling"

 

[Mebbid]

You can certainly cycle a fry tank. The bacterial load will adjust to handle whatever ammonia production the tank has. Your best bet if possible is to cut up established media and cram it in a new filter. You could hang it in front of the output or intake as well though. You should skip the cycling process altogether doing this.

 

[pip walters]

Yes, fry are susceptible to high ammonia, but as with adult fish the ammonia builds up over time to dangerous levels. It is possible to keep ammonia levels down by doing regular large water changes and removing uneaten food a nd fish faeces...... oh hang on, that is exactly what you do lol.

I read an article years ago about a breeder of, it think, south american dwaf cichlids, who had no filtration in any of his tanks. I believe he changed 10% per day.

Some aeration is good though