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Old 03-30-2009, 12:15 AM   #1
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Question Why is this considered taboo???

Hi i was just wondering why is it it's like against the betta breeders law to breed veil tail bettas??? I breed bettas and like to breed bettas over halfmoon, of course the payday isn't as good but i find veil tails to be more energetic and fun to watch, they're like the little mut puppy no one wants
I don't why veil tails aren't considered quality bettas. They probably have a higher immune system and life span then the pure breds they're not bred with siblings which does lower the bettas overall immunity to diseases and is just plain unnatural. I want opinions here people, do you think it would be a good idea for me to try and breed bettas and improve the veil tail line, because I'm totally up to the task and would love to see veil tails to hit there prime all over again. So basically is this a good idea.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:20 AM   #2
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I honestly never heard that people don't think that veil tails aren't quality bettas. Bettas are bettas and they are just another sp. of fish to me.

I would also like to know why people think veil tails aren't as great.

EDIT: Just to add this in, I do have a crowntail betta, but I think no less of the veil tails. I picked my betta because he was one of the few bettas that looked energetic in the cup. So I thought I would let him have more room in something bigger like my 5G
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:24 AM   #3
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I guess it may come down to making some money. I just say my first Delta Tail Betta at a local pet store for $30. I like all bettas, regardless of fins. It's their colors that matter to me.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:31 AM   #4
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I think it is so easy to get a veil tail and people think it is a waste of time to breed them. Veil tails are my favorite type, finding healthy ones is the challenge.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:54 AM   #5
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Most breeders like "their brood" to be as close to natural as possible. It depends what they are in it for. If you like veil tail Bettas and you are producing quality, healthy fish that will not contaminate the breeding population of Bettas then you keep breeding what you like.
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishCrazyBenBOMB View Post
I honestly never heard that people don't think that veil tails aren't quality bettas. Bettas are bettas and they are just another sp. of fish to me.

I would also like to know why people think veil tails aren't as great.

EDIT: Just to add this in, I do have a crowntail betta, but I think no less of the veil tails. I picked my betta because he was one of the few bettas that looked energetic in the cup. So I thought I would let him have more room in something bigger like my 5G

I quote Faith from bettatalk.com

uveil tail

A mutation caused short finned bettas to have longer fins. And the veil tail was created. Veil tails hang down when the betta is not flaring, and are not much to look at even when bettas flare. The tail is larger at the base, but almost immediately narrows down. It is asymmetrical, meaning that if you divide the tail horizontally (see red line) you would end up with 2 non identical parts. All pet store bettas are veil tail, and veil tai is no longer a desirable tail shape. It is my understanding that veil tails are not even allowed to compete on the show circuit anymore. Hence, breeding pet store bettas is a huge waste of your time because you will never get quality finnage.



Or at ultimatebettas.com
This is an issue that comes up ALL the time on UB, so I think it's about time to have a pinned topic on it.


Most, if not all of us, got our first betta from a pet store. They are beautiful fish and have great personalities... why not breed him/her? In fact, there are many reasons why this is often not a good idea. Here are some things to consider before you breed your fish.
  • Many bettas sold in pet stores (usually just the males, but sometimes the females too) are either past or at their breeding prime. After the age of about one year, the risk of deformities and/or weak fry increases. How long have you had the bettas you want to breed? If they were 6-12 months of age (like most males are in pet stores) when you first got them, how old are they now?
  • The genetic background of pet store bettas cannot be known (besides the obvious based on their appearance). Pet stores bettas come from mass-producers/suppliers (unless yours is an exceptional mom-and-pop place and gets fish from private breeders which is usually not the case) so they are not at all carefully bred. What if your bettas carry genes that result in many deformed fry? Are you prepared to deal with this?
  • One spawn can and often does result in hundreds of betta fry. Are you prepared to raise that many babies to adulthood? Do you have live food, a big enough growout tank, and enough jars if at least half of them are male?
  • Pet store fish (namely veiltails and crowntails) are not, by any means, in great demand. Many pet stores' shelves are filled with bettas rotting in their little cups because they get more in than people buy. People are usually not willing to pay to have pet store fish shipped to them, so you will need to find homes locally. Selling to pet stores is not recommended because this is just contributing to the "betta-in-a-cup" industry that we all know and hate. Do you know enough people to give your fry to? Or do you live near a good pet store to give them to? Do you trust this pet store with your babies, and are you willing to chance what kind of homes they end up in?
There are many places to get a good quality pair for breeding. Look in the classifieds here on UB, and on aquabid.com. If you do not have the means of getting a pair from a breeder, I suggest that you hold off on breeding bettas until you can... it will be worth it! (IMG:http://www.ultimatebettas.com/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif)


edit: Added 4/07 on elise's request, from topic "Looked down on?"

QUOTE (RandomWiktor)
"Pedigrees" and "elitism" are not the reason people discourage breeding VTs - it is because the market is inundated with them, from very poorly bred stock, so finding homes for fry and creating healthy offspring is almost impossible - making breeding unethical. Veil tails do basically come from the puppy mills of the fish world. They can indeed be bred in better conditions since many are essentially farmed, but there is little regard for genetics or health. They come to stores thin, stressed, parasitized, ill - and it only goes down hill from there due to the conditions in most stores. Many have swim bladder issues, deformities, tail biting behavior, and other earmarks of poor breeding, and most are past breeding age, meaning a high chance of deformed fry. What's more, because you do not know the lineage, you don't know if the colorations will be disreable, if the sire or dam throw a high % of deformities, if the father was an egg eater or a tail biter, etc.
The other issue is that, while VTs are popular pets, you must consider how they are popular. Are they popular to keep in a dirty half gallon vase eating roots until they die? Yup. Are they popular to keep in a cold bowl on a windowsill in a dorm until some idiot pours vodka in the tank at a party? Yup. Are they popular as wedding centerpieces, getting sent home to attendees who do not want or know how to care for fish? Yup. Are they popular among disturbed youths to fight? Yup. Are they so popular that every pet store has hundreds of them dying in neglect while they are mass-marketed to a public that is largely mis-informed about their care, so that maybe one in that hundred actually gets a good home and the rest are mistreated? YUP. Is that the kind of life you want for any fish you breed, or would you rather breed tail types that only true enthusiasts go for to ensure a knowledgeable, dedicated home?
Just like you wouldn't breed your dog, horse, or rabbit unless you knew the background of its parents and grandparents, had it tested for any genetic illnesses, knew it was an appropriate age and health to breed, and knew you could find good homes, you want to be responsible when breeding bettas. As far as I am concerned, breeding pet store VTs is like buying a cockapoo and a puggle from some seedy pet store and breeding them.
Is there anything inherently wrong with the fish themselves? Absolutely not! They are beautiful, spirited, have a ton of personality, and make great pets. But is there something inherently wrong with irresponsible breeding practices that contribute to an industry where they are overwhelmingly abused? Definately.


Now do you believe me?
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Old 03-30-2009, 08:29 PM   #7
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I never said I didn't believe you. I was just wondering why people thought that.

I never said I didn't believe what you said...
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