Goldfish help!

[namllots]

It has been a month now and the water is still brown. I brought water to be tested at Petco and they said all levels were where they should be. Help!

 

[Greta1981]

Hi,
I'm new here and I don't know your situation. If you could give me a few more details, I'll be happy to help you. What is your tank size? How many goldfish do you have in it? What kind? Any other tankmates? Is the only problem the tank water and/or are your fish being affected by it? Did Petco give you any numbers on ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate? I highly recommend you get an API water testing kit as pet store testing is typically inaccurate. They often use strip testing or expired tests. If you have your own kit, you can monitor your water levels regularly, which is really important with fish who produce as much waste as goldfish.

 

[namllots]

44 gallon tank with 8 fancy goldfish and one beta fish. Petco did not say anything about the amount of fish in the tank but I'm I'm guessing this is way too much. I just bought an API testing kit as petco just uses strips and couldn't give me any numbers.

 

[namllots]

I have not lost any fish at all just brown water.

 

[Greta1981]

Are the fancies juveniles or adults? If they're juveniles, they need 30 gallons of water for the first fish and 10 to 20 gallons for each additional fish. For adult fancies, you need 55 gallons of waters per fish. It sounds insane, but if you look at the sticky in the Coldwater thread, you'll see pictures by a goldfish expert on how HUGE these fish grow. When kept in too small tanks, they either die quickly of water poisoning or become stunted, meaning their outsides stop growing, but their insides don't, leading to a slow, painful death.
I would highly recommend you return at least 7 of those fancies. One could live comfortable in a 40 gallon alone for a time, until it needs to be upgraded to a 55 as an adult.
As for the betta--goldfish are coldwater fish. Bettas tropical. They are not compatible species at all. Bettas are very aggressive and he might one day get the idea to kill off his tankmates because their long, flowy fins look like competition.
He needs his own separate 5 to 10 gallon tank, heated and filtered.
Your water will never be anything but brown, unfortunately, with that overstocked a tank. Pet stores won't tell you any of this because, if your fish gets sick, you spend lots of money buying every product possible to make it better. Then, when it dies, you spend more on a new one, and the cycle perpetuates itself. For the stores, it's about financial gain, not fish health.
It's great that you got the API test kit. I strongly recommend you test the water right now. My guess is that your water parameters are off the charts, ammonia and nitrite-wise.

 

[namllots]

Thanks so much for your feedback. I'll take all but one back to the pet store. It's ashame that petco misinformed me.

 

[Greta1981]

That's so great that you want to do what's best for your fish. So many people would have insisted on keeping them, leading to terrible suffering. Petco is having its $1 a gallon sale right now, btw. You could return the 40 and upgrade to a 55, if you're interested. That would a perfect size for an adult fancy and you'd never need to upgrade again. There are a few fish I can suggest for you to house in a 55 gallon with your goldfish, without causing too much strain on the bioload, and so you'd have more than one fish in that big tank. (Although he'll grow to 8 inches quickly and the tank won't look quite so empty after that. )
After you return your fish, I'll be happy to help you figure out any lingering problems with water quality though those should clear up quickly without the issue of overstocking. Is your tank cycled, by the way?

 

[Maridia]

Are the fancies juveniles or adults? If they're juveniles, they need 30 gallons of water for the first fish and 10 to 20 gallons for each additional fish. For adult fancies, you need 55 gallons of waters per fish. It sounds insane, but if you look at the sticky in the Coldwater thread, you'll see pictures by a goldfish expert on how HUGE these fish grow. When kept in too small tanks, they either die quickly of water poisoning or become stunted, meaning their outsides stop growing, but their insides don't, leading to a slow, painful death.
I would highly recommend you return at least 7 of those fancies. One could live comfortable in a 40 gallon alone for a time, until it needs to be upgraded to a 55 as an adult.
As for the betta--goldfish are coldwater fish. Bettas tropical. They are not compatible species at all. Bettas are very aggressive and he might one day get the idea to kill off his tankmates because their long, flowy fins look like competition.
He needs his own separate 5 to 10 gallon tank, heated and filtered.
Your water will never be anything but brown, unfortunately, with that overstocked a tank. Pet stores won't tell you any of this because, if your fish gets sick, you spend lots of money buying every product possible to make it better. Then, when it dies, you spend more on a new one, and the cycle perpetuates itself. For the stores, it's about financial gain, not fish health.
It's great that you got the API test kit. I strongly recommend you test the water right now. My guess is that your water parameters are off the charts, ammonia and nitrite-wise.

I don't think there are any solid rules, but there is a range. I have heard that you can house 2 fancy goldfish in a 29 gal (20 for first fish and 10 gal for each additional fish) and still have a good and healthy system as long as you practice good husbandry. I have also heard another point of view that each requires 20 gallons. I don't own goldfish, but I was considering it.

 

[Greta1981]

I do own goldfish. I do not intend any rudeness at all--none at all, I promise--but no goldfish can live in a 20 gallon tank. None. Any experienced goldfish keeper will tell you this. Fancy goldfish grow to a minimum of 8 inches. Single tailed goldfish can grow to 12 inches. Lack of space results in stunting, meaning their outsides stop growing, but their insides don't. Goldfish also produce enormous amounts of waste, more than almost any other freshwater aquarium fish, so they literally poison each other in too-small spaces, regardless of diligent water changes. Juvenile fancies need 30 gallons of water for the first fish, as you said, and 10 to 20 for each next fish. However, they grow fast, and will soon need 55 gallons of water per adult fish. Again, I intend no rudeness at all. I'm just saddened when I hear of goldies kept in 20 gallons. They suffer so terribly.
I have 2 comets in a 50 gallon and need a 200 gallon just for those 2 fish very soon. I just got an 80 gallon yesterday and hope to upgrade to a 160 in the next six months. My fish have grown 1 inch in three weeks. They grow FAST!!

 

[Maridia]

I do own goldfish. I do not intend any rudeness at all--none at all, I promise--but no goldfish can live in a 20 gallon tank. None. Any experienced goldfish keeper will tell you this. Fancy goldfish grow to a minimum of 8 inches. Single tailed goldfish can grow to 12 inches. Lack of space results in stunting, meaning their outsides stop growing, but their insides don't. Goldfish also produce enormous amounts of waste, more than almost any other freshwater aquarium fish, so they literally poison each other in too-small spaces, regardless of diligent water changes. Juvenile fancies need 30 gallons of water for the first fish, as you said, and 10 to 20 for each next fish. However, they grow fast, and will soon need 55 gallons of water per adult fish. Again, I intend no rudeness at all. I'm just saddened when I hear of goldies kept in 20 gallons. They suffer so terribly.
I have 2 comets in a 50 gallon and need a 200 gallon just for those 2 fish very soon. I just got an 80 gallon yesterday and hope to upgrade to a 160 in the next six months. My fish have grown 1 inch in three weeks. They grow FAST!!

You were not being rude at all. I really like this forum because it's a good source of information. And everyone is happy to help. Thanks for your input.

 

[namllots]

It's so sad how misinformed people get by going to big store pet stores ie: Petco. The salesman I am dealing with is the manager of the fish dept. He has 4- 2ft gf in his 55 gallon tank and didn't blink an eye when he said it. He's had them for 10+ years. He did not seem to think the space was too small for his fish.

 

[Greta1981]

It's likely those fish won't live their full 20+ years. Did he have other fish in with them?
Of all people, I wish pet stores, who are seen as being in a position of authority on the animals they sell, were willing to be better educated. I know of one person who tried to politely educate a pet store employee and was informed that she was "elitist." I have no idea how suggesting something other than a fish bowl for a goldfish is elitist, but okay, then ...

 

[pip walters]

I don't wish to be rude either, but 2 goldfish in 200 gallons? Some people don't have ponds that big and keep perfectly healthy goldfish in some numbers. If this volume rule were true, I can tell you nobody in the uk would keep goldfish. I have been in aquatics all my life and I don't know where this has come from.. are you sure you are not confusing gallons with litres Greta? 200 gallons would be 8 feet x 2 x 2..... for 2 goldfish??

 

[pip walters]

It's so sad how misinformed people get by going to big store pet stores ie: Petco. The salesman I am dealing with is the manager of the fish dept. He has 4- 2ft gf in his 55 gallon tank and didn't blink an eye when he said it. He's had them for 10+ years. He did not seem to think the space was too small for his fish.

I would like to see a 2ft goldfish... they must have 10 inch tails (don't include tail when measuring fish for tank.size). 55 gallons could house 4 large goldfish quite easily.

 

[namllots]

Pip Walters: i have a 44 gallon tank. What can I safely put in there. How many gold fish?

 

[twiddlemuffin]

Pip Walters: i have a 44 gallon tank. What can I safely put in there. How many gold fish?

I'd stick with two just to be safe. 3 of you have super good filtration/water change schedule.

 

[Greta1981]

Yes. I am positive I am not confusing gallons with liters, Pip. My family has been in fishkeeping (breeding and selling) for many years. You're welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine, based on what I learned from them though I only began keeping my own fish recently. What Father, Grandfather, Great-Grandfather, Aunts, Uncles, Brother, etc, all say is what I will continue to abide by.

 

[Tommy10]

I'm no goldfish expert but I think some rules are a bit extreme. I think you could for sure have atleast 2 in there with good water changes and filteration even with them growing to 8"

 

[jlk]

I'm no goldfish expert but I think some rules are a bit extreme. I think you could for sure have atleast 2 in there with good water changes and filteration even with them growing to 8"

Species is irrelevant here but perspective is important. Oscars carry a very similar bioload to goldfish-would you honestly keep two 8" oscars in a 40g tank? Even one 8" oscar? Most people would emphatically tell you that even one oscar is unrealistic in a 40g. Goldfish are not very different.

 

[namllots]

My LFS won't take back the other gf I have in the tank and I can't get another tank at this time. Why would they possibly tell me it's ok to put that many gf in a 44 gallon tank. I've got 5 gf in there. Ugh!