Help for a newbie!

[Lgrace]

We have an out side fountain/ pond that is maybe around 200 gallons. We only have four goldfish in the pond with some water plants, snails, and algae during the summer months. We've had the fish for around 2 years now, they are maybe between 3 1/2 to 5 1/2 inches not counting the tail. During the winter we have to capture them and bring them inside because our pond freezes soiled its only 3 or 4 feet deep. So on Sunday we caught them all and put them ini a 10 gallon tank, with two filters and a gravel bottom. We are doing partial water changes daily. I now realize that it's too small for them. So I found a 65 gallon tank on craigslist that comes with a filter, plants, sand, and decorations for $70. Were planning on picking it up on Saturday. They are all eating and pretty active.

My questions are would it be better to transfer them directly the tank wants its set up or to wait a few days?

Also one of the fish have a few scales missing and maybe some blood. What should we do to treat it?

Here is a picture of the injury:


Thanks for your help!

 

[Lgrace]

Sorry the pic was upside down. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[jlk]

Welcome to AA!!!

Great job getting them a bigger tank for this winter! Do you have an API or other liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph? This as well as a good water conditioner such as Prime will be vital to keep these guys healthy. Your best option is to move them immediately to the new tank. The 10g is likely not cycled and will not cycle properly with such an a large amount of messy fish in a small space. The 65g will cycle but it will take some work on your behalf to see them safely through the process (lots and lots of water changes). Please read the article below and ask any questions!

In respect to the red scrape/missing scales, this is not a big deal and it will heal quickly on its own with nothing more than lots of healthy water. Just keep an eye on the injury for any signs of fungus or infection and observe your fish for any signs or symptoms that something else may be amiss. If something seems not 'right' or your just not sure, please let us know immediately and we can further advise!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

 

[Lgrace]

Welcome to AA!!!

Great job getting them a bigger tank for this winter! Do you have an API or other liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph? This as well as a good water conditioner such as Prime will be vital to keep these guys healthy. Your best option is to move them immediately to the new tank. The 10g is likely not cycled and will not cycle properly with such an a large amount of messy fish in a small space. The 65g will cycle but it will take some work on your behalf to see them safely through the process (lots and lots of water changes). Please read the article below and ask any questions!

In respect to the red scrape/missing scales, this is not a big deal and it will heal quickly on its own with nothing more than lots of healthy water. Just keep an eye on the injury for any signs of fungus or infection and observe your fish for any signs or symptoms that something else may be amiss. If something seems not 'right' or your just not sure, please let us know immediately and we can further advise!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

Thanks for you help. We don't have the liquid test kit, but we do have the test strips. We dont have a water conditioner either, but we are on well water. Do I still need that on well water? The 10g wasn't cycloled but we did add some of the water from the fountain. Would that be bennificial? During the summer the pond had water reeds, lilies, and allgee growing in it along with snails that just appeared. So it might have some good bacteria. Should we add some of that water to the new tank?

I'll just keep a idea on the fish with the scrape. He is acting normal.

Thanks for the help!

 

[jlk]

With well water, the only concern would be possible metal content. If you drink the water and have it tested regularly, then it should be safe for fish without a water conditioner. However, as your tank will not be cycled, using Prime will give a little bit of error room. Prime or Amquel Plus are the only two water conditioners available that help to detox ammonia, nitrite and nitrate temporarily which will be very helpful for your fish between water changes in a fish-in cycle.

Strips are not very accurate and it will be important that you are able to test your water daily during the cycling process. Amazon has the API freshwater master test kit on sale for @$16 right now. Inexpensive compared to most stores that price theirs at $36+.

Does your outside pond have a filter? Pulling filter media from this will be the most helpful as long as the pond temp is still above 45f. Or if you know someone with a healthy, cycled tank that is willing to donate some media.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

With well water, the only concern would be possible metal content. If you drink the water and have it tested regularly, then it should be safe for fish without a water conditioner. However, as your tank will not be cycled, using Prime will give a little bit of error room. Prime or Amquel Plus are the only two water conditioners available that help to detox ammonia, nitrite and nitrate temporarily which will be very helpful for your fish between water changes in a fish-in cycle. Strips are not very accurate and it will be important that you are able to test your water daily during the cycling process. Amazon has the API freshwater master test kit on sale for @$16 right now. Inexpensive compared to most stores that price theirs at $36+. Does your outside pond have a filter? Pulling filter media from this will be the most helpful as long as the pond temp is still above 45f. Or if you know someone with a healthy, cycled tank that is willing to donate some media.

The first part is not necessarily true. People can consume nitrates and chlorine in their water. Both are harmful to fish. If you keep doing water changes with nitrates in your water, you'll only be harming your tank.

 

[mistersprinkles]

The first part is not necessarily true. People can consume nitrates and chlorine in their water. Both are harmful to fish. If you keep doing water changes with nitrates in your water, you'll only be harming your tank.

That's not true at all.

If there are say 10ppm of nitrate in the well water, the only thing that affects is frequency of water changes. You will have to do W/C more often, because your starting point of nitrate is 10ppm. It's just logical.

How is using water that already has nitrates in it harmful? Fish waste is converted into nitrate by beneficial bacteria in your tank every day. It's safe for most freshwater fish to be at 20ppm of nitrate or so.

OP: Did you have a filter on your outdoor fountain? If so you should bring that used filter media inside and put it in the tank with the goldfish.

For the injury you could add Melafix to the water (as per package instructions) and that ought to help heal it.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

That's not true at all. If there are say 10ppm of nitrate in the well water, the only thing that affects is frequency of water changes. You will have to do W/C more often, because your starting point of nitrate is 10ppm. It's just logical. How is using water that already has nitrates in it harmful? Fish waste is converted into nitrate by beneficial bacteria in your tank every day. It's safe for most freshwater fish to be at 20ppm of nitrate or so. OP: Did you have a filter on your outdoor fountain? If so you should bring that used filter media inside and put it in the tank with the goldfish. For the injury you could add Melafix to the water (as per package instructions) and that ought to help heal it.

I never said anywhere not to do water changes because of that. What I'm trying to explain is that water conditioner like prime will completely get rid of all of these elements. For example:
Say you have 20 ppm of nitrates. You do a fifty percent water change with 10 ppm of nitrates in your water. Where are you? Where you started. Okay so that's not harmful. What about in a larger scale. ---

There's 100 ppm of nitrates and you want to save your fish. You do a 50% to get it down with fifty, and add 10 ppm back in. 60 ppm of nitrates. Do another fifty, then you have 40 ppm. Water gets low, and you too it off. 50 ppm. 50% water change, down to 35. The cycle continues. Eventually you'll never be able to get below 10 ppm. Now take in account the amazingly high bioload of a goldfish. Over time water changes will be temporary fixes for nitrates. Just a capful of prime can stop that lol.

And also, nitrates can be deadly for fish. You'd be surprised. It's against the law for high nitrates to be in human drinking water. Fish live in this water, so it's even more serious. Nothing against you at all lol I'm ranting about some common misconceptions in aquaria in general. Just because fish live in it, does not mean it is healthy. Think of it like this (this is a pretty distant analogy, but still definitely explaining the point):
somebody eats pure sugar from a packet and it doesn't affect them. Sure it's fine. Another packet, well that's okay. Etc etc etc. eventually you will die (it will take a lot, but still). just because you're alive does not mean you did not suffer. You get headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms. Fish can't tell us these so called symptoms. When nitrates are high there's nothing they can do. Although they live, it is not healthy. Of course it's MUCH healthier than ammonia and nitrites.

anyways i do not mean to come off as rude at all so do not take me the wrong way at all. Just trying to state that buildup of anything (okay buildup of money is not lol) is a bad thing. Some people may not work like you may to do more water changes to lower nitrates. In general it just causes more work.

Anyways, back on subject. As somebody already stated the outside temperature could hamper bringing in the filter media from outside. There are different strands of the nitrifying bacteria in different temps if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

EDIT- oops that was another thread that stated that about temperature. Although I still mean the same thing haha

 

[jlk]

The first part is not necessarily true. People can consume nitrates and chlorine in their water. Both are harmful to fish. If you keep doing water changes with nitrates in your water, you'll only be harming your tank.

Nitrates and chlorine are in fact harmful to humans at high levels. This is why the EPA sets strict limits on their levels. Even low levels of nitrate in water poses serious health risks to infants and those that are immune compromised.

We do not not know anything in respect to the OPs well water so let's not jump to any conclusions in respect to what the water may or may not contain, water changes or lack thereof, etc. If the well water has been tested regularly for safety for human consumption, then it's likely within safe limits for fish as well.

 

[jlk]

EDIT- oops that was another thread that stated that about temperature. Although I still mean the same thing haha

Can you please explain what 'means the same thing' if you are referring to another thread?

Nitrifying bacteria do not survive temperatures below 40f. Irrelevant what strain they may be. There is no logical reason to bring in filter media full of dead bacteria. However, we do not know if there is even a filter. Let's please give the OP a chance to respond before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Lgrace]

The pond doesn't have a filter in it, it just has a pumping system that takes it to the top of the fountain and then it falls down a waterfall into the base of the fountain. We have plants in the pools as well as the main fountain. We could get a filter but I didn't think it was needed one with only 4 fish. Even if we had a filter most of the bacteria is probably dead. Because we live in Colorado and its been getting down into the negatives the past them nights. So getting more seading from the fountain is probably not a issue. The fountain is ran all winter but is normally mostly frozen solid.

Also our well water is used for the household as well as the fish even when they are in the fountain during the summer. So I don't think it would be a issue. Also we have very mineral filled water. So we don't need the water conditioner? should we medicate the fish with the scales missing or just let it heal on it's own?

Thanks everyone for your help! I'm just trying to do what's best for the fish.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

Can you please explain what 'means the same thing' if you are referring to another thread? Nitrifying bacteria do not survive temperatures below 40f. Irrelevant what strain they may be. There is no logical reason to bring in filter media full of dead bacteria. However, we do not know if there is even a filter. Let's please give the OP a chance to respond before jumping to conclusions.

Haha sorry I meant that it was another thread that had said that information. I thought it was this one, but it was not.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

The pond doesn't have a filter in it, it just has a pumping system that takes it to the top of the fountain and then it falls down a waterfall into the base of the fountain. We have plants in the pools as well as the main fountain. We could get a filter but I didn't think it was needed one with only 4 fish. Even if we had a filter most of the bacteria is probably dead. Because we live in Colorado and its been getting down into the negatives the past them nights. So getting more seading from the fountain is probably not a issue. The fountain is ran all winter but is normally mostly frozen solid. Also our well water is used for the household as well as the fish even when they are in the fountain during the summer. So I don't think it would be a issue. Also we have very mineral filled water. So we don't need the water conditioner? should we medicate the fish with the scales missing or just let it heal on it's own? Thanks everyone for your help! I'm just trying to do what's best for the fish.

It's not really necessary to treat. If you know what the problem is and what caused the wound, then no need. I have seen in the past though that a goldfish does that when harboring parasites, but I doubt you have any if they have been outside in the cold weather recently. Also, since it's one wound it's not likely. So just keep doing water changes and it will heal itself. And with the water conditioner- it may not be necessary, but it doesn't hurt. If you don't feel comfortable buying it, or don't want it at all, then don't.

 

[Lgrace]

Ok thanks for the help. We picked up the tank today, it was used as a salt wAter tank previously. Do you think that would be a problem if we washed it really we'll? Also it came with some corral, can we use that in the freshwater tank? Also I might need some help setting it up, it's kind of confusing.

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Lgrace]

We brought our tank home and I'm a little confused about all the stuff that came with it. It came with a diotimic filter, but I read you don't use it all the time. Is that true? Also the tank has tubes on the back of it. What are these used for?

 

[jlk]

Just clean it with water and white vinegar. If the coral is sharp, I would not personally use it. It may also raise your ph a bit but that is not a big deal for goldies.

Do you mean a diatom filter? The tubes likely indicate the tank is plumbed for sump but I honestly am not 100% positive. Can you possibly post some pics or link some pics from another site so we can figure out what you have?

 

[Lgrace]

Here are some pics i'm not sure you can see in the pics but the tubes have an air stone in them it did come with an air pump too. I think it's a diatom filter. But I have no ideahow its suppose to work. We a planning on putting sand in the bottom. It's child play sand I heard it was okay. Do you need to clean it? Should we use gravel instead? Thanks so much for your help!

Here is the corral

And some random tubing

 

[mistersprinkles]

Here are some pics i'm not sure you can see in the pics but the tubes have an air stone in them it did come with an air pump too. I think it's a diatom filter. But I have no ideahow its suppose to work. We a planning on putting sand in the bottom. It's child play sand I heard it was okay. Do you need to clean it? Should we use gravel instead? Thanks so much for your help!

That looks like an undergravel filter. Two of them actually. you need an air pump to drive those. They are a primitive form of filtration popularized in the 1980's. I would suggest getting the undergravel filters out of the tank and springing for a good canister filter. Goldfish do produce a lot of waste, after all. You should also put a filter on the fountain when they're in it, and take the cycled filter media back and forth with you when you transfer them back and forth.

 

[Brilliant_Barbs_21]

Here are some pics i'm not sure you can see in the pics but the tubes have an air stone in them it did come with an air pump too. I think it's a diatom filter. But I have no ideahow its suppose to work. We a planning on putting sand in the bottom. It's child play sand I heard it was okay. Do you need to clean it? Should we use gravel instead? Thanks so much for your help! http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums...e1617e4f63e8245897bb1a1bade1a_zpsb60b1815.jpg Here is the corral And some random tubing

Sand will work just clean it like you would any other sand. No gravel. Goldfish can choke on it. And if I were you I wouldn't put in that coral. It looks really sharp.