possible imminent pond crisis?

[Gazingatstars12]

My girlfriends grandparents have a small koi pond in their backyard that's been there about 3 or 4 years. When we started dating almost 2 years ago there were 4 koi about 7-8 inches long. I'm guessing the pond is somewhere between 300 and 500 gallons. For well over a year now, since I started keeping fish in an aquarium and learning about water parameters, we have been in a battle with them to run their filter as much as possible. We built them a waterfall with a new filter, set up timers... yada yada.

Every time we go over there the mechanical timer is unplugged, the filter is off, and the water is green and disgusting. I'm guessing they run their filter about 2 hours a day MAX. They took out all the filter media except for the lava rock because it "got too dirty" We can't even get them to keep the dam barley bag in there for the algae. I don't know anything about changing water in ponds, but all they do as far as this is concerned is top it off straight from the hose.

Now their fish have decided to go ahead and spawn a few months ago and I'm afraid its a death sentence for them all. There's about a dozen babies about 1-2 inches long. I have a stinking feeling once winter is over and the weather starts to get warmer they're gonna start to see floating fish.

Do these little guys have any chance? And I know my info is sort of vague, but id like some kind of idea of how long until disaster strikes?

Thanks in advance

 

[Zagz]

Unfortunately it doesn't sound great. However if you want to know if they pond is got water issues, you would have to take some water from the pond and test it for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

Do they have any plants in there? Do they get a lot of rain by chance?

 

[Gazingatstars12]

Yea next time I go over there I'm gonna bring my test kits. I'm in snow covered NY so I doubt I can even get to the pong right now. .. I haven't been there since just after xmas

We get about average rainfall I'm guessing. Nothing excessive

And as far as plants go I think they have a couple water lilies and maybe 1 or 2 others

 

[Gazingatstars12]

I have a feeling its 350 gallons. I saw one in home depot one time that looked just like theirs that was 350. Kind of shaped like a kidney bean.

When we were doing the waterfall I tried to clean up the bottom a little bit and there was like an inch and a half later of black.....sludge at the bottom. It was horrific. Its probably never been vacuumed. And thinking of it now, do plastic ponds require substrate? There was none

I saw online that koi require 10 gallons per inch of fish, which means they were maxed out before the babies even came into the picture

 

[Teakwood]

Maybe rivercats can help out here? I know she ha a really large backyard pond. Maybe print up some info and tell them you are scared for their pond future???

 

[Zagz]

Keep one thing in mind, fish that are used to terrible water conditions can be traumatized by sudden cleaning of the water. They have to acclimate to good conditions. I hate to say it but unless you are willing to go there and do the maintenance all the time, there is no permanent solution. It does not sound like they are interested at all in maintenance.

 

[Gazingatstars12]

That's what we tried when we set up the new filter. We figured we would start with the filter being on consistently and work from there cleaning the pond step by step. Unfortunately we didn't make it past step one.
My main concern now is the incredible Bio load there will be when the new fish start to get bigger. Is it possible for four 9 inch and twelve 2 inch koi to survive in a pond that small? Even if I did take over maintenance, which, Being that as of just recently I finally became comfortable enough with maintaining a 20g aquarium that I decided to set up a second one, I think is a little beyond my skill level,
I feel like id just be fighting a losing battle from the very beginning....

 

[Rivercats]

Got your PM and wow you have a real issue on your hands. First off a pond that small really shouldn't even have koi, commets and shubunkin are much better suited. Will they allow you to sell all the koi for starters? It would be really good to be able to rehome the fish, get the pond squared up, then see about getting a small number of more suitable fish if they have to have any fish at all. I know you asked if koi can survive/live in a pond that small and unfortunely yes they can but it is rather cruel as the bio-load from the koi along with all the built up bottom sludge probably has nitrates and phosphates out the roof and eventually the koi's health will deteriorate. If nothing is done to the pond come spring it will get green pea soup water. But in all honesty they most likely won't tend to the pond and the best thing to do would be remove the fish and empty the pond or remove it. You can't make them run the equipment and even if you could convince them to leave the equipment running you'd have to go over to check the filter and pond every weekend. Oh and the plastic preformed ponds shouldn't have substrate.

Is the filter part of the waterfall system or is it seperate? Honestly when temps warm up you will need to go over there a few weekends in a roll and start first by cleaning out the filter and literally remove about 1/3 of the pond water (we have a sump pump we use) and refill but add enough declorinator (we use Pond Prime- you can get it in large bottles) to treat the size of the pond. I know this is going to be like knocking your head against the wall but try to tell them if they want the pond the filter has to be left plugged in. This is the first weekend. Next weekend go back and change 1/2 the pond water again using the same proceedure as above. The third weekend is going to be rough as you need to bring a huge tupperware tub over, fill it with pond water, drain the pond by 1/2, then catch out the fish and put them all in the tub, which should be in a shaded area. It would be advisible to have an aerator for the tub. Once the fish are out of the pond you need to finish draining it down as low as possible and literally scoop or syphon out as much mulm/detris as you can out of the bottom of the pond. Then once done refill the pond and declor the entire size of the pond both before and after filling. Check the temp in the pond and in the tub if you still have the fish to be sure it's about the same. Then you are going to have to acclimate the koi by removing 1/2 of the tubs water and adding a bucket or two of the pond water every 1/2 hour until the tub is full again. Then net out one fish and add to the pond. Monitor it for 30 minutes to be sure it is alright. If so then add back any fish left in the tub. Also come spring it would be wise if you can add media bags to the filter to add a good phosphate remover along with the barley. Once it's warm enough get either some water lettuce or water hacynths to float as they will help alot with absorbing nutrients.

 

[Gazingatstars12]

Thanks to the other poster... you were the right one to ask. The pond already looks like pea soup... its looked that way since the first time i saw the pond almost 2 years ago. I'm at work at the moment and didn't have a chance to read your whole post. Later when I get home I'll look it over better and respond

Thanks agajn

 

[Gazingatstars12]

OK now that I have had a chance to read your full post

There's no chance they would he willing to get rid of their original fish. I've had my girlfriend and her mom working on them to at the very least find the babies a new home...even if they give them to the fish store for free

I found out today that Supposedly they will be hiring a local pet/fish store to come check out the pond when it warms up but my concern is that theyre gonna just try to sell them all kinds of products and chemicals that will do nothing and cost a ton of money. I've found that in my aquarium fixing things naturally is much better than using additives... and if they're willing to let me id be willing to try the method you suggested. It sounds like it would be a bit of work but there's no one else with the knowledge (although limited) and ambition to try.


I'm gonna have the girlfriend approach them with the idea and see how it goes

Thanks for the advice everyone

 

[Rivercats]

I would do my darnest to be present when the pond guy comes out. It's not only about selling them stuff but it will be more along the lines of selling a service contract for the pond people/person to maintain the pond.

 

[Gazingatstars12]

Excellent idea. If they do end up having them come out I'm going to do exactly that.

 

[aquanoob82]

My girlfriends grandparents have a small koi pond in their backyard that's been there about 3 or 4 years. When we started dating almost 2 years ago there were 4 koi about 7-8 inches long. I'm guessing the pond is somewhere between 300 and 500 gallons. For well over a year now, since I started keeping fish in an aquarium and learning about water parameters, we have been in a battle with them to run their filter as much as possible. We built them a waterfall with a new filter, set up timers... yada yada.

Every time we go over there the mechanical timer is unplugged, the filter is off, and the water is green and disgusting. I'm guessing they run their filter about 2 hours a day MAX. They took out all the filter media except for the lava rock because it "got too dirty" We can't even get them to keep the dam barley bag in there for the algae. I don't know anything about changing water in ponds, but all they do as far as this is concerned is top it off straight from the hose.

Now their fish have decided to go ahead and spawn a few months ago and I'm afraid its a death sentence for them all. There's about a dozen babies about 1-2 inches long. I have a stinking feeling once winter is over and the weather starts to get warmer they're gonna start to see floating fish.
n
Do these little guys have any chance? And I know my info is sort of vague, but id like some kind of idea of how long until disaster strikes?

Thanks in advance

hi bro.. sounds like your gf grandparents are just cheap on electricity bill cost ( understandable) and dont like cleaning filters/media...im beginning to build a pond..i saw one lady on utube have a seperate tub which she pumps the pond water into it and let it overflow back into the pond as a fountain..but in that tub all she did was fill it up with water hycinth(natural plants) i also am exsperimenting with solar electricity to cut down on electric cost.. my little system so far cost about $200...that will keep the pumps on!!!... to pond sounds soooo dirty that it clogged the filter too quick...scoop all fish out into a large container and prob do a 25-70% water change...plain untreated tap water burns the gills of the fish big no no..... hope u got some ideas from this !! thankyou for reading

 

[Matt68005]

Maybe call animal cruelty people? And avoid her parents cos they sound like ignorant jerks. If they treat their pet fish cruel. Imagine how they will treat you.

 

[Gazingatstars12]

I don't think the aspca covers fish