Anorexic Newt?

[wizfiz]

I have a 37 gal tank and started to get bored of just having fish in there so I have been experimenting with a couple of frogs and a newt thrown in the mix. I have a dwarf frog, fire-bellied toad, and fire-bellied newt. The dwarf seems to be doing fine, the only fish that took an interest in him were my blue rams but they got bored quick. The toads have not fared very well, two out of three died for mysterious reasons and it has gotten me worried about the newt. He never gets into the water, ever. And he never eats, ever. How does he live like this? I have taken him out of the tank and put him in his own little box with food and he wont even eat that. I am feeding him frozen brine shrimp, which is what the pet store said to feed him. I am worried that he is starving, he looks very very skinny and unhealthy. Plus he was much more interesting when he played in the water. Now he just sits on the rock motionless. Boring. Any suggestions?

 

[TCTFish]

It is possible the newt doesn't recognize brine shrimp as food. Try bloodworms...live or frozen. If you feed frozen foods, do defrost it in dechlorinated water. You can also try offering small pin head sized crickets if and when the little critter gets better. Something is wrong. Another possibility is that the newt can have internal parasites. I suggest isolating the newt by itself. Shallow water. May be too weak to swim.

You also need to test the aquarium water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Let us know the results. This will help rule in or out any possibilities.

 

[fishfirst]

He maybe at the stage where he becomes terrestrial instead of aquatic... my other hypothesis is that ~ Almost all Newts are coolwater newts... your tropical tank is way too warm for them.

 

[TCTFish]

Yes. Newts do like cooler water. Between 65 and 75 degrees is ideal. However, they NEVER become fully terrestrial. They are aqua terrestrial. I've had newts in a river tank for 7 years...same animals...and they always took to the water. A skinny newt that refuses to eat and move around is a sick newt.

 

[Toirtis]

Very possibly internal parasites....likely flagellates or some protozoan.

 

[wizfiz]

Thanks for the responses. I will go to my LFS tomorrow and see what I can pick up there. My biggest problem is that I am in college in a small college town with one pet store owned by a guy with good intentions who just doesnt quite know a lot about aquariums. I have repeatedly been given bad advice such as snails wont reproduce in my tank, and a butterfly fish will be fine with those german blue rams.. I got rid of the snail in time, but the blue rams killed the butterfly within 2 hours. Anyways thanks for the response, I will test the water and let you guys know if anything changes.

 

[Toirtis]

Thanks for the responses. I will go to my LFS tomorrow and see what I can pick up there.

You want something with just metronidazole (flagyl) as an ingredient....look for Aquarium Pharmaceuticals' "Hex-A-Mit", or SeaChem's "Metronidazole".

 

[millipede]

I'm quite curious as to what the setup looks like. The amount of water needed to keep those fish happy could be too much for the newt and fire belly toad. What have you been feeding the toad?
I personally like having a diverse setup but it isn't easy to please so many different species in one tank. 37 gallons is a good size tank for any of those animals but place them all together with the diverse habitat that each needs and all of the sudden it's a little crowded.
One things I can't stress enough is from now on ask here, or somewhere, before you ask the pet store. And any pet store, no matter where, when they give you info, check somewhere else first. There's enough people here that if someone here was to give you bad advice, others would correct it. I do hope you can save the animals you have left and ask all the questions you need.

 

[aimeeo]

I have 3 fire bellied newts and they love frozen bloodworms. I highly recommend feeding them that.

Since we are on the newt topic. Can you use sand in the newt tank instead of gravel?

 

[Toirtis]

Since we are on the newt topic. Can you use sand in the newt tank instead of gravel?

If you can rind a true river sand, then yes...but gravel is still likely better...that or a bare-bottomed tank.

 

[aimeeo]

thanks

 

[wizfiz]

The setup that I have now is a 37 gallon tank with the water lowered 5 inches or so. There is a floating rock in the corner that the toad and newt live on. Neither of them really enjoy the water that much, but the toad is healthy and will swim occasionaly. The newt is just scrawny and doesnt do anything but he must eat something because I have had him for weeks now. I also have a small dwarf frog that swims around the bottom of the tank and he is healthy and happy too with a lot of activity. I am trying to find a new home for the toad and newt so I can raise the water all the way and not worry about them anymore. It was a cool idea at first that just didnt really work out.

 

[frog girl]

Is your newt a local one?? I used to catch them up there when I was a kid (WA state).

If so there are several possibilities. Most amphibians in northern climates hibernate for the winter. I think the newt you are describing is a terrestrial hibernator but I could be mistaken (I will have to look it up tommorow in an amphibian reference). In hibernating amphibians their digestive tract shuts down for the winter (actually looses like 2/3 of the mass & stops secreting digestive enzymes). I worked in a lab for a while with Rana pipiens (leopard frog) & often they refused to eat & would get skinny in the winter. The problem is you want them to be fat before you hibernate them otherwise there can be a high mortality rate.

Also most amphibians are triggered to feed by movement. One of the newts favorite foods is earthworms. See if you can get some (go to a fish bait place & make sure you don't get the ones injected with pretty colors). I would suggest starting it with red worms if you can find them & then cutting some night crawlers in 1/2 or 1/3s if you get him to eat. When he is healthy again you can drop the worms right in the aquarium & watch him goble them down underwater. You can also try mealy worms but that would be a second choice. Normally the crickets would be fine but right now he may not be able to go after them.

If he still refuses to eat despite these machinations I would try to trick him by putting him in a box with wet paper towels either outside or in your fridge for a couple of days. But you can't let him freeze. You don't want to leave him in to long because he has no fat reserves to live on when his body goes to sleep. A week or so would probably be ideal. Then warm him up gradually by putting him in the garage or porch & then inside in a cool place & finally in his own little tank ( you want him to think that spring has sprung so a little misting wouldn't hurt). Try feeding again after that.

The other thing is amphibians can easily get vitamin D deficiencies. I have never studied newts but if frogs don't have a full spectrum light they can't synthesize vitamin D & this can result in just deformity when they grow or death. Often times reptiles & amphibians perk up & eat better if exposed to a full spectrum light.

Hope this helps & good luck.

 

[frog girl]

P.S. by full spectrum I didn't mean the aquarium light variety but rather one that emits UVB & UVA

 

[Toirtis]

Newts do not require full-spectrum light, and can actually be harmed by the radiation....as can frogs at anything but very low levels.

 

[frog girl]

I would be a bit suprised if full spectrum light would hurt the newt since he is a partially terrestrial organism. All it does is simulate the radiation put out by plain old sunlight. Better than a bulb would be putting the animal outside where it could lie in the sun (no glass cause that blocks UV light) Usually if they feel overexposed they will just dig into the substrate or find a hide.

UVB has been associated with deformity in some frogs but often at quite high dosages such as those that might occur under the hole in the ozone at high altitudes.

For reptiles the need for UVB in order to synthesize vitamin D3 and deposit calcium in bones is well documented.

For amphibians it is less so & there are some species that have adverse reactions to UV supplemention. However it is still recomended as a course of treatment for amphibians that have a vitamin D3 deficiency or imbalance in phosphorous:calcium intake which may cause metabolic bone disease. see this article for specifics www.livingunderworld.org/amphibianArticles/article0001.shtml

In addition I have kept many frogs and eating is often better with UV supplementation. I realize that newts are different critters but it might help & usually the change is fairly rapid.

 

[wizfiz]

Wow.... too many details to handle! I assume its a local newt but the other newts at the LFS are fat and active so I figured he would be the same. It all seems like something that my tank is not quite equipped to be tackling right now, and I am thinking about asking the owner of the LFS if he wants to take the newt back and possibly trade it for something else, I am thinking about venturing into the cichlid area, I already have two blue rams which are awesome and Id like more fish that look as cool as them and have such great personalities. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[Toirtis]

UVB has been associated with deformity in some frogs but often at quite high dosages such as those that might occur under the hole in the ozone at high altitudes.

Not so high, actually.....recent studies are showing that it is much lower than previously suspected.

The problem with the newts is multifold....the main ones being that newts are mostly crepuscular to nocturnal, and that with any UV light supplementation, they also, do not, in captivity, have the tannins in the water, or other naturally occuring structures or materials that would shield them from the bulk of the UV radiation, or particular wavelengths.