1st Salt Water Tank - Need advice

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stony

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
8
Location
Grand Junction, CO
In about a month, I will be getting my first salt water tank. It's a 55 gallon acrylic set-up. It is a used one but I believe it has everything I need to get started with.

Some of the things I guess, and I am not too familiar with it all, but the plastic ball things, a heater, gravel, lights, protein skimmer, and other stuff. Like I said, I'm not sure what it all comes with but the person I am buying it from assures me that all I will need is water, fish, and coral/live rock.

My 5 Y.O. daughter is extremely excited about this and is looking forward to having a bunch of Nemo's and Dory's swimming around in it. Looking at the prices of those particular fish, I want to make sure that they are in my best financial interest.

What would be a good starter type set-up for somebody who doesn't really want to spend $500 on fish? Especially since I have 0 experience with a salt water tank.

I don't want them to outgrow the tank either. Also feeding of the fish. I don't want to spend more on fish food per week than I do on my dog per year.

Thanks all for your advice.
 
Clownfish are an acceptable fish for that size tank. Hippo tangs (Dory) are not.

Finances seem to be an issue (as they are for most of us), so I will tell you now that even with the bare minimum, you need to be prepared to spend a good bit of money. Monthly maintenance is not cheap. You need testkits, live rock and the other incidentals. Liverock is a very expensive part of the tank. a softball size rock is about 3 lbs. Liverock per pound price is anywhere from 4.00 to 7.00 depending on whether you buy it locally or online. Even if you chose the liverock for decoration purposes and not enough to filter the tank, it is a good chunk of change. For filtration, you would need about 110 lbs minimum.

I guess what I am getting at is the cost of the fish is probably the least expense you will have.
 
dead rock will eventually become live rock. Live rock is the best type of filtration (in my opinion). The blue plastic balls that you are getting with the tank, will actually work against liverock filtration. Most people discover that the blue plastic bioballs are nitrate factories and replace them with liverock in the sump area as soon as financially possible.

If you choose to stick with the bioballs for filtration, then you would only get as much rock as satisfies your decorating scheme, keeping in mind that the fish relate the rock to a more natural habitat and are happier when they have a good bit of it available.
 
Welcome to AA!!

you have bought the general basics, but there is still more you need to buy. Not expensive stuff individually, but enough that it will add up.

I recommend 2 heaters for your tank so if one breaks, and goes unnoticed, your water temp won't drop and kill your animals. Also, you can either take one out at water change time to get the new water up to temp, or buy a third that will be used for WC's. While on the topic of water changes... You're gonna need 2 rubbermaid tubs. One for mixing new water, and one for taking out old water (same size tubs so you can accurately replace what you took out). You will also need a powerhead for mixing/aerating new SW.

Which brings me to tell ya about the powerheads you'll need in the main tank. I recommend maxi-jet 1200's (2 in the main tank should do, you may need 3 depending on your aquascape). You may already have powerheads in the "other stuff" category you mentioned though.

Buy a 200G bucket of salt to start off with, it'll last you awhile. Your lights, what kind are they. They may just be normal output (NO) flourescents, in which case, if you want corals etc., you'll need to upgrade eventually. What kind of protein skimmer is it?

Other things you'll need to have:

-hydrometer
-test kits
-fish net
-algae scrapers/cleaners
-water purifying solutions, or better yet, RO/DI unit
-GFCI (for your safety against electricution)
-grounding probe (for your fishes safety against electricution from stray currents)
-powerstrips
-mechanical timers for your lighting period


I do strongly recommend researching as much as you can on this hobby. It WILL save you much of your hard earned "green" in the long run.!!!

Cheers,
Ryan
 
Welcome to AA :D

Do you know if the tank has ever been medicated? Was it used previously for FW or SW? Is it “reef ready”? Are you taking over an existing setup that has fish/inverts?

Hara said:
For filtration, you would need about 110 lbs minimum.
Isn’t that closer to the maximum for a 55 gal tank? I have 90 lbs in my 55 gal and it’s very close to looking like a “rock tank” and not a fish tank. I thought 1.5 lbs per gal was the minimum needed for bio-filtration which would be about 83 lbs?

stony said:
Is there an advantage to having live rock vs. dead rock?
Two things: Live rock “looks” prettier (greens/reds/oranges) and depending on quality has either sparse or tons of life (coralline algae, corals, & hitchhikers) along with a good amount of beneficial bacteria to start/maintain your cycle.

Dead/base rock is devoid of life and is generally white/brown but serves the same purpose as far as bio-filtration once bacteria builds up within the pores (about two months)

If you seed dead/base rock with some live rock it will all look live within about a year.

Research is key to successful SW fish keeping and as ryguy mentioned reading all the saltwater articles on this site and the articles on liveaquaria.com is an excellent way to get acquainted with all that’s required for this expensive hobby.

SW fish keeping isn’t really that much more complicated then keeping FW or brackish fish. The key thing to understand is that SW fish/inverts come from a very stable environment (the ocean) which has a fairly consistent sg/ph and very low nutrients. They require fairly stable conditions in the aquarium as well to thrive long term hence the reason you want to consider a skimmer which removes DOC therefore keeping your nutrient and no3 levels low. A SW tank can be run successfully without a skimmer (as many have done for years) but require more frequent PWC to keep DOC down. Since SW doesn’t exchange oxygen as well as FW you are also limited in the amount of fish you can keep compared to FW or Brackish. For SW the general rule is 1” of fish per 5 gal for starting out. For FW/Brackish it’s 1” per gal. There is virtually no limit on how many inverts you can keep though within reason. Acclimation is probably one of the biggest differences between FW/SW and drip acclimating them for 3+ hours to adjust to the sg/ph will help considerably.

FW & Brackish fish come from less then perfect water conditions most of the time and more oxygen rich environments which make them easier to keep in less then perfect water. As already mentioned as long as you take it slow ie: doing a fishless cycle, then adding 1 or 2 fish per week and research your fish/invert selections before purchasing you should do fine. I would also consider a qt tank (20 gal) so you can qt all new inverts/fish and never have to treat the main tank.

lr and skimmer filtration (Called the "Berlin Method") doesn’t require the use of any mechanical filtration ie: sump or hob, but does require water movement through the use of ph (aiming for 600-1200 gph for your 55 gal). It is easy to maintain although it’s costly to initially setup.

Also unlike FW or Brackish the use of tap water/de-chlorinator is not recommended due to the high levels of minerals & usually no3/po4. A ro/di unit is recommended for removing all of these elements and to make the water as pure as possible.

A lot of people get them from ebay for around $100. Below are the 3 most popular sites:
Filter-Direct-store (seems to be most popular on this site)
The-Aqua-Safe-Pure-Water-Shop
ROfilterDepot

Also airwaterice.com is a good place if you don’t want to deal with ebay.
 
For filtration, you would need about 110 lbs minimum.

Since when is 2 lbs per gallon the minimum recommendation?

Stony, you can get by with 1 pound per gallon of LR for biological filtration, but 1.5 would be a better target. 2 lbs is even better, but by no means the minimum required for biologic filtration. In fact, at 2 pounds, depending on the porosity of the rock, you may not have many aquascaping options other than a massive rock pile due to the physical volume of rock within the tank.
 
Awesome advice everybody. Thank you all.

The person I am buying the tank from is upgrading to a 250 gallon tank. The tank I am buying is mainly a live rock and coral tank with some eels and other fish. Not sure if it has been medicated or not. The gravel is actually crushed coral.

I am still pretty leary of the whole SW thing. I have successfully taken care of numerous FW tanks without much issues but this whole SW thing has me a bit nervous. Mainly due to the costs involved.

There is a possibility that I will switch it over to a FW tank and just raise some Bass and Catfish. Not sure on that whole thing yet.
 
Since when is 2 lbs per gallon the minimum recommendation?

Thats my story and I am sticking to it...alot of places use that amount as a general rule. Ultimately, denseness of the rock and amount of bioload are your determining factors.
 
Hara, you would honestly recommend 2 lbs of LR MINIMUM in a 55 Gal, potentially sumpless system (at this point we don't know that stony will or won't have a sump). That doesn't leave alot of room for a sufficient amount of water to maintain adequate water quality if a sump is not going to be incorporated. Forgive me, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.

what is your max. recommendation out of curiosity?
 
Here is an example of what I mean...up until recently, I had 150 lbs of very dense gulf rock in a 55 gallon tank, it went 2/3 up to the top of the tank. If I had that same 150 lbs in fiji rock, I couldnt have found the room for it. The tendency lately (just read the numerous posts on gulf rock) is to buy this dense and heavy rock that has (IMO) much less filtration capability than the fiji or similar carribean rock. In which case, you would need more weight to do the same job. Most people wont pay the $'s anymore for the good rock when they can find gulfrock. Nor do people new to the hobby, understand the difference.

edit to add the following: My max would be this...I have all my fish, is my tank healthy with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at zero? If so, I have enough rock, if not, I need to buy more.
 
Hara,

you always do well at keeping a level head through various discussions with differeing opinions, so I trust and hope that this is not an exception and nothing I say gets taken as an attack. That's not my intention.

I hear what you are saying, I made mention to the porosity of the LR as well in an earlier post. I realize that many new aquarists are surprised by the additional stuff they need to buy above and beyond what they originally thought. LR is always the biggest kick in the pants upon first hearing about it. "I gotta spend HOW MUCH $ on ROCK?," as we know, is quite commonly overheard.

My concern is that, lets say no one else commented on this post, 110+ lbs of a porous LR may have been purchased to find that there is too much of it and little room left for water. I realize that the odds of that happening are VERY slim, but it still is a possibility. your rationale behind how much LR in total is needed (ie: water parameters), is completely understandable, but who's to say that someones zero readings wouldn't still be zero with less rock? I agree adding more until you get to the "right amount" is the best way, but starting at 1# or 1.5# makes the most sense.
 
You make valid points. I am one that always errs on the side of caution. I would rather see too much than too little. As we all know, there is more than one "right" way to do things in this hobby and I just expressed what my "preferred, right method" is. No offense taken on a difference of opinion.

What we are showing however, whether it is 100, 150 or even just 50 lbs of liverock, is that the expense is there and it isnt cheap. I think that is the ultimate question from the poster anyway, and most people come close to having a coronary when they write the check for 200. or 500 or whatever for a pile of rock.
 
Hara, I have learned tons from you and always highly recommend your site and also do not mean to “personally attack”. Thank you for your more detailed reasoning behind your 2 lbs per gal recommendation.

I completely understand you’re reasoning as well but also had to cringe at the 100% lr comment. Personally I used 60 lbs of base and 30 lbs of quality live rock and feel that it is an excellent way to cut costs without sacrificing bio-filtration once the base rock builds the bacteria. After 9 months now the base is coming along nicely and the “bottom rock” is starting to look more and more like the quality live rock that cost 3 times as much for half. For the last 7 months I have no3 of <2.5 or undetectable.

Granted a SW tank is 10 times the cost to setup and maintain then a FW/Brackish tank but I think recommending 2lbs per gal or getting 100% lr could be better spent by using a mixture of base/lr and/or starting out with 1.5 lbs per gal. That way they could get a quality skimmer which IMO helps keep a health tank by removing DOC more so then just having a ton of quality live rock.
 
Bottom line is this hobby ain't cheap.

We read a lot of posts saying budget is limited, and I do my best to encourage, but keep it realistic with costs. I don't want to see someone turned off the hobby because of costs, but then again, I don't wanna see someone make a half-ass (sorry, couldn't think of a better way to say it) stab at it either.

I cringe when I hear people list what the minimum is, and they leave out WC supplies, ongoing maintenance costs, plumbing costs, electricity costs, etc, the list goes on.

I know we could never get an accurate list of essential supplies, because everyone has a different opinion, but it would be nice to have a sticky formed from a ongoing poll of essential equipment. Items could be added with personal rationale to back it up, to avoid argument :)
 
This thread has been most informative to say the least. Most people I talk to say that it's easy and isn't much more expensive than having a FW tank. I am definitely one of those who is thinking "You want me to spend how much on rocks?"

I am getting the tank and all the stuff for $100.00 and the value of everything was around $1000.00. That's what really perked me up on thinking about this. I don't really think my wife would go for spending 2-300 bucks on rock. I just can't see it. Heck, I have enough trouble getting her to pony up 10 bucks for fishing lures.

I definetely didn't want to jump into this half-assed either, hence that is why I am here. It looks like FW may be the way to stay for me. Just convert it all over.
 
The expense can get intense...:)

I chose a 46-gallon aquarium, not because I didn't want a bigger tank, but because I couldn't afford to do a bigger tank right! I've easily got invested almost $1000 into it now, and I haven't even gotten my new lights yet!!! 8O hehe!

All in all, though, once I am finished, I do believe that the investment will be worth it to me. The reason I am so excited about saltwater is the amount of things to look at over freshwater, and so much more "real" of an ecosystem. There is live rock, beautfiul multiple colors of coralline algae, living things coming out of the rock, living in it, snails and crabs and shrimps all over, beautiful shimmering fish swimming around...then you can begin to add corals...I love my aquariums, and I know I'll be fascinated for years to come with it.
 
In an ideal world 2lbs/gal is terrific. I always shoot for at least that amount. I have over 25lbs in my 12gal nano and over 160lbs in my 72gal reef. Both share a mix of Fiji and Carribbean. I think we all agree that the more LR the better. You certainly do not need to start with 2lbs/gal but that should be a good goal. Rock varies so much in density that 100lbs of one type will look like it fills up a tank and the same amount of another will barely get you started. My advice...get as mush as you can now. It is okay to mix LR and base rock in the begining, much more economical as well. I still say shoot for an end number somewhere around 110+ pounds. Your tank will love you for it. Trust me, it will not look too crowded.

Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!!!
 
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