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Old 09-25-2004, 08:33 AM   #11
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hmm... I had read the article of

http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html

I had change little bit on the sump as below attachment " Skimmer > Refugium > Return "

[/url]
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- Andersen

P/s: English is my 7th languages in my life, I hope reader could understand my broken English

Currently : Having the 2 feet Aquarium tank for Reef setup.

Soon : On the way for setup L=72" X W=24" X H= 30" Aquarium for Reef. -_-" very costly...
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Old 09-25-2004, 12:00 PM   #12
steve-s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersen
ok below is my recent 2 feets tank result
7
Without fan
morning to afternoon/everning about 27-28-29C
night will about 26-27-28C

With fan
morning to afternoon/everning about 26+ - 28+C
night will about 25.8 - 26+C
If you feel the chiller would benefit the tank by all means. IMO, with the fan your max temp only gets to about 28°C (82°F) which is at the high end but can be lowered even more with an open top tank and a fan blowing over the sump which should be enough to avoid the hassles and noise of a chiller. All I'm suggesting is not spend unneccessarily, start with easier less costly means first.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
- UV light, do this need? where should I put?
- O3 box (electric) I show this in magazine, do this need?
I wouldn't bother with either of these options. Both offer a small amount of protection that can be quite costly. I would instead you read up on proper >>quarantine<< procedures for all new fish.
I donut know why this happen to me, this three months, I got only problem on nitrate (NO3) test, it always on "red" color result, and I change water every week for about 30-50% still get "red" color result for NO3 test.

I ask the marine seller, they said maybe I had feed my marine too much. but I feed only once a day...

My lighting switch on for 10 hours per day. I donut think this is the problem.

- purple light for 2 hours first on and before off.
- bright light, 8 hours between the 2 hours of purple light.

Do I really need the NO3 machine? or do you have any better idea for this?
Nitrates are not always from feeding alone. It really depends on how the bilogical filtration is set up, the amount of fish in the tank and the amount of animals added to deal with wastes like snail, hermits, stars and the like.

In your previous post you wrote "O3 machine" which is ozone. I am guessing that was a typo and you meant NO3 machine or denitrator. The denitrators can be useful depending on what they are and how they're set up but the eaiest way to control polutants in the tank is being mindful of bioload, feedings and having more than adequate natural filtration.


Quote:
And below is my first sketch for my 3-4 feets tank, how you think? it that still ok?

I like the con setup, reason it look nice, but I feel it will easy break, maybe I need to fix two bracket to each con.
Have a look at this >>refugium/sump combo<<. It has some better detailed information.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-26-2004, 04:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
If you feel the chiller would benefit the tank by all means. IMO, with the fan your max temp only gets to about 28°C (82°F) which is at the high end but can be lowered even more with an open top tank and a fan blowing over the sump which should be enough to avoid the hassles and noise of a chiller. All I'm suggesting is not spend unnecessarily, start with easier less costly means first.

I tank are top expose, nothing cover since the first day I setup the tank.

Hmm. true, "not spend un-necessary", So I had online order the "110 Watt Thermoelectric Peltier Cooler" as below spec :-
------------------------------------------------------
Model CP1-12710
40mm x 40mm x 3.3mm
85 - 110 Watts of cooling power
Operates from 0-15 volts DC and 0-10 amps
Operates from -60 dec ca to +180 dec ca
Fitted with 6-inch insulated leads
Perimeter sealed for moisture protection
------------------------------------------------------

So I will DIY myself with 12volts DC with volume control to control the degree. I wish my tank can hold the temp from 22-24°ca, since I got 6 corals & 8 fishes, 1 shrimp & 1 sea slug.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
I wouldn't bother with either of these options. Both offer a small amount of protection that can be quite costly. I would instead you read up on proper >>quarantine<< procedures for all new fish.
Good article! Do you have any picture or photo show the setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Nitrates are not always from feeding alone. It really depends on how the bilogical filtration is set up, the amount of fish in the tank and the amount of animals added to deal with wastes like snail, hermits, stars and the like.
Ok, my setup is below:-
- 2 feet's tank about 60 liters without top cover
- Hang on tank filter
* Sera Bio-Ball (medium pack on filter and small pack in tank)
* Carbon (medium pack on filter and small pack in tank)
- In tank protein skimmer
- In tank water flow motor
- 2 lighting (bright & purple/Blue)
- 5 inches fan
- 5KG live rock
- 3KG live sand
- 6 corals, 8 fishes, 1 shrimp and 1 sea slug.

Ca = fine, KH = 11°, salt 1.020-1.022, NO3 = always red

any idea?


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
In your previous post you wrote "O3 machine" which is ozone. I am guessing that was a typo and you meant NO3 machine or denitrator. The denitrators can be useful depending on what they are and how they're set up but the eaiest way to control polutants in the tank is being mindful of bioload, feedings and having more than adequate natural filtration.
Yup! I look again in my magazine, it called "Ozonier", previous mail, I had forget the name so I said "03"

Do you think this will work on 2 feet and future for 3-4 feet’s tank? or just remove the bioball slowly on 3-4 feet’s tank?

I had try to search on forum, I found a lot of member have the Nitrates problem, and the only way is remove the bioball slowly, because they had build the sump with live rock, that is enough material for the tank uses? is it correct? so mean if got the sump, Ozonier will not necessary need?


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Have a look at this >>refugium/sump combo<<. It has some better detailed information.
Thanks for the link it was very helpful for me my next project! Thanks!!!
__________________
Best Regards,
- Andersen

P/s: English is my 7th languages in my life, I hope reader could understand my broken English

Currently : Having the 2 feet Aquarium tank for Reef setup.

Soon : On the way for setup L=72" X W=24" X H= 30" Aquarium for Reef. -_-" very costly...
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Old 09-26-2004, 01:10 PM   #14
steve-s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersen

Hmm. true, "not spend un-necessary", So I had online order the "110 Watt Thermoelectric Peltier Cooler" as below spec :-
------------------------------------------------------
Model CP1-12710
40mm x 40mm x 3.3mm
85 - 110 Watts of cooling power
Operates from 0-15 volts DC and 0-10 amps
Operates from -60 dec ca to +180 dec ca
Fitted with 6-inch insulated leads
Perimeter sealed for moisture protection
I couldn't tell you about this as I am not very up on electronics. Hopefully someone with more knowledge in this area will help you.

Quote:
So I will DIY myself with 12volts DC with volume control to control the degree. I wish my tank can hold the temp from 22-24°ca, since I got 6 corals & 8 fishes, 1 shrimp & 1 sea slug.
I would not advise you keep the tank in that temp range. It is not healthy for the animals. 26°-27°C would be optimum, actually just shy of 27° would be best. Where are the fish/corals collected from?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
I wouldn't bother with either of these options. Both offer a small amount of protection that can be quite costly. I would instead you read up on proper >>quarantine<< procedures for all new fish.
Good article! Do you have any picture or photo show the setup?
Personally no I don't. I have not added new fish for quite awhile but if you post a new topic thread asking people to post pics of their QT set up, you should get quite a few. It's quite easy really. A 20 gal QT would be a good size, hang on powerfilter or corner sponge, heater and lots of PVC piping for the fish to hide. No substrate or rock is recommended but painting the outside bottom/back is a good step. Lighting is only needed to help see possible parasites/problems on the fish but is otherwise not needed or advised. Ambient room lighting would be less stressful on the fish.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Nitrates are not always from feeding alone. It really depends on how the bilogical filtration is set up, the amount of fish in the tank and the amount of animals added to deal with wastes like snail, hermits, stars and the like.
Ok, my setup is below:-
- 2 feet's tank about 60 liters without top cover
- Hang on tank filter
* Sera Bio-Ball (medium pack on filter and small pack in tank)
* Carbon (medium pack on filter and small pack in tank)
- In tank protein skimmer
- In tank water flow motor
- 2 lighting (bright & purple/Blue)
- 5 inches fan
- 5KG live rock
- 3KG live sand
- 6 corals, 8 fishes, 1 shrimp and 1 sea slug.
Ca = fine, KH = 11°, salt 1.020-1.022, NO3 = always red

any idea?
One glaring problem is the size of you tank vs the amount of fish you have depending on species. In a 60 lt tank I can pretty much tell you without even knowing what fish you have that the tank is overstocked (too many fish) and that is the main source of your NO3 problem. Based on tank size, there is no way that natural denitrification can keep up with that bioload. Your actually quite lucky not to have any problems with NH3 or NO2.

What exact fish do you have?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
In your previous post you wrote "O3 machine" which is ozone. I am guessing that was a typo and you meant NO3 machine or denitrator. The denitrators can be useful depending on what they are and how they're set up but the eaiest way to control polutants in the tank is being mindful of bioload, feedings and having more than adequate natural filtration.
Yup! I look again in my magazine, it called "Ozonier", previous mail, I had forget the name so I said "03"

Do you think this will work on 2 feet and future for 3-4 feet’s tank? or just remove the bioball slowly on 3-4 feet’s tank?

I had try to search on forum, I found a lot of member have the Nitrates problem, and the only way is remove the bioball slowly, because they had build the sump with live rock, that is enough material for the tank uses? is it correct? so mean if got the sump, Ozonier will not necessary need?
The ozonater wouldn't really be necessary even without the sump, you could use one but I will always recommend hobbiest strive for natural means of control. The more gadgets, the more chance for things to go wrong. I would look at your bioload before you go this route.

The key factor is balancing the bioload with the tanks ability to render all forms of the nitrogen cycle. If you exceed the tanks ability to process nitrogens you will always have NO3 issues. An ozonator will help reduce organics but so will a good skimmer. If the ozone is not set correctly you could easily wipe out the tank. I would take the money you set aside for the ozone and put it towards a quality skimmer overrated for the size of tank you will have.
As far as the bioballs, I would not recommend you remove them at all. You could lightly rinse the bag holding them in a bucket of SW to remove any organic build up but do not scrub them or clean them in FW. It would destroy the bacteria and given your bioload, I think the bioballs are what's keeping you tank from experiencing even larger problems.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-28-2004, 07:07 AM   #15
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
I would not advise you keep the tank in that temp range. It is not healthy for the animals. 26°-27°C would be optimum, actually just shy of 27° would be best. Where are the fish/corals collected from?
27°C? Hmm.. Sound good. If maintance 26°C-27°C is easy in my envoriment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Personally no I don't. I have not added new fish for quite awhile but if you post a new topic thread asking people to post pics of their QT set up, you should get quite a few. It's quite easy really. A 20 gal QT would be a good size, hang on powerfilter or corner sponge, heater and lots of PVC piping for the fish to hide. No substrate or rock is recommended but painting the outside bottom/back is a good step. Lighting is only needed to help see possible parasites/problems on the fish but is otherwise not needed or advised. Ambient room lighting would be less stressful on the fish.
Hmm... I had post a new thread for "Quarantine Setup", hope will get more opinion and comment to setup my 4 feets aquarium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
One glaring problem is the size of you tank vs the amount of fish you have depending on species. In a 60 lt tank I can pretty much tell you without even knowing what fish you have that the tank is overstocked (too many fish) and that is the main source of your NO3 problem. Based on tank size, there is no way that natural denitrification can keep up with that bioload. Your actually quite lucky not to have any problems with NH3 or NO2.

What exact fish do you have?
So you mean my 2 feets aquarium is too much animal in? Hmm I think it is the time to change bigger (4 feets) aquarium soon.

My fish as below.
Coral :-
- Yellow Polyps (small/medium)
- Gonipora Stohesi (small/medium)
- Caribbean anemone (medium/little large)
- Thick-tentacled anemone (small size)
- Trachyphyllia geofroyi (small/Medium)
- Look like Cerianthus membranaceus (very small)

Fish : -
- Yellow-Tail Damselfish x 1 (small)
- Blue-green Reefish x 1 (small)
- Two-colored Anglefish x 1 (small)
- Yellow Coral Goby x 1 (very small)
- Crownfish Normal percula (Nemo) x 2 (very small)
- Spotted Mandarin fish (small)
- Blue Madadarin dish (medium)

Others :-
- Coral-banned shrimp
- Stiped Naudibranch (Not really know correct or not, can't find on books)
- Sea slug (Not really know correct or not, can't find on books)

actually I want to add more on slug or similar...



Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
The ozonater wouldn't really be necessary even without the sump, you could use one but I will always recommend hobbiest strive for natural means of control. The more gadgets, the more chance for things to go wrong. I would look at your bioload before you go this route.

The key factor is balancing the bioload with the tanks ability to render all forms of the nitrogen cycle. If you exceed the tanks ability to process nitrogens you will always have NO3 issues. An ozonator will help reduce organics but so will a good skimmer. If the ozone is not set correctly you could easily wipe out the tank. I would take the money you set aside for the ozone and put it towards a quality skimmer overrated for the size of tank you will have.
As far as the bioballs, I would not recommend you remove them at all. You could lightly rinse the bag holding them in a bucket of SW to remove any organic build up but do not scrub them or clean them in FW. It would destroy the bacteria and given your bioload, I think the bioballs are what's keeping you tank from experiencing even larger problems.
Hmm.. I will take it as a notice, I think I will sckect myself a lot plan to setup the 4 feets. I wish not made mistake, reason the cost and time. so i will make sure the plan is work then only I will cash out my $.
__________________
Best Regards,
- Andersen

P/s: English is my 7th languages in my life, I hope reader could understand my broken English

Currently : Having the 2 feet Aquarium tank for Reef setup.

Soon : On the way for setup L=72" X W=24" X H= 30" Aquarium for Reef. -_-" very costly...
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:35 AM   #16
steve-s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersen
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
What exact fish do you have?
So you mean my 2 feets aquarium is too much animal in? Hmm I think it is the time to change bigger (4 feets) aquarium soon.

My fish as below.
Coral :-
- Yellow Polyps (small/medium)
- Gonipora Stohesi (small/medium)
- Caribbean anemone (medium/little large)
- Thick-tentacled anemone (small size)
- Trachyphyllia geofroyi (small/Medium)
- Look like Cerianthus membranaceus (very small)

Fish : -
- Yellow-Tail Damselfish x 1 (small)
- Blue-green Reefish x 1 (small)
- Two-colored Anglefish x 1 (small)
- Yellow Coral Goby x 1 (very small)
- Crownfish Normal percula (Nemo) x 2 (very small)
- Spotted Mandarin fish (small)
- Blue Madadarin dish (medium)

Others :-
- Coral-banned shrimp
- Stiped Naudibranch (Not really know correct or not, can't find on books)
- Sea slug (Not really know correct or not, can't find on books)

actually I want to add more on slug or similar...
The sessile and mobile inverts do not contribute to the bioload in terms of a waste producing source, the fish are the main concern. In a 15 gal tank (60lt), you should truely have no more than 2-3 small fish.

When deciding on what fish to keep, you need to look at maximum adult size and stock no more than about 1 inches of fish per 5 gal of tank volume not including the tail length. It's not a hard and fast rule but moreso a guideline. There are many factors that can actually allow more fish or if messy eaters and aggressive swimming habits, less fish.

I am curious how long you have had the dragonet's? Their primary food source is copepods and amphipods and will not typically survive in such a small tank for too long.

As far as your slugs go, you can check >>this site<< and see what you can find. It's a great resource but alot of information to go through. If you have a digital camera, you can also post a pic in the ID forum to see if anyone knows off hand. Just be sure the image size is less than 100k and 640x480 pixels.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:16 PM   #17
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
The sessile and mobile inverts do not contribute to the bioload in terms of a waste producing source, the fish are the main concern. In a 15 gal tank (60lt), you should truely have no more than 2-3 small fish.

When deciding on what fish to keep, you need to look at maximum adult size and stock no more than about 1 inches of fish per 5 gal of tank volume not including the tail length. It's not a hard and fast rule but moreso a guideline. There are many factors that can actually allow more fish or if messy eaters and aggressive swimming habits, less fish.
huh? Really? I had mantain the 2 fee aquarium for so many weeks like above animals but I show them are so happy swim here to there, they are excited every time my hand ready food for them.

Hmm, I think I had done the mistake, It so lucky they do not have any problem for the moment, I wish to upgrade to 4 feets soon as possible, if now the 2 feets aquarium is very limited space for them. I don't know 2 feets aquarium is recommended for over 3 fishes. like mine is almost over the maximum limit, my friend come to my house and he shout at me and say the same thing, " WOW! unbelieveable your small tank full with the fishes and coral blah blah blah" He say I am so lucky animals didn't die. he had check my all animals for the moment still in healthy condition, but still recommended upgrade for bigger tank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
I am curious how long you have had the dragonet's? Their primary food source is copepods and amphipods and will not typically survive in such a small tank for too long.
the madarin fishes are from the 1st day until today, it almost 3 weeks plus nearly to a month. They are look good and active, I love their movement, dam cute and relax. every time they swallow things, there will release waste thing on top their back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
As far as your slugs go, you can check >>this site<< and see what you can find. It's a great resource but alot of information to go through. If you have a digital camera, you can also post a pic in the ID forum to see if anyone knows off hand. Just be sure the image size is less than 100k and 640x480 pixels.
I had attachment my two unknown thing, may be you will know, but I don't know them. What is this two animals??? my friend said this is not slug...
__________________
Best Regards,
- Andersen

P/s: English is my 7th languages in my life, I hope reader could understand my broken English

Currently : Having the 2 feet Aquarium tank for Reef setup.

Soon : On the way for setup L=72" X W=24" X H= 30" Aquarium for Reef. -_-" very costly...
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:33 PM   #18
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The pink one is a Sea Cucumber, possibley Parastichopus californicus. The other is a somewhat common sea slug possibley Phyllidiella sp. but I am not sure on that at all.

3 weeks for the dragonets is not nearly enough time to judge success. The sooner you have the new tank up and running the better. More commonly, dragonets will not accept prepared food and will exhaust the natural food supply of such a small tank after only a few short month (if not sooner). Watch their bellies do not become sunken, that would be a sure sign. If anything, these should be really be returned until the new tank is ready and had time to mature.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
The pink one is a Sea Cucumber, possibley Parastichopus californicus. The other is a somewhat common sea slug possibley Phyllidiella sp. but I am not sure on that at all.
Thanks! Above two species, I had found one similar, but I can't really 100% sure it is or not. For the first picture "unknown.jpg", I find the family "Phyllildiella" with the link you supply me, it similar "Phyllidiella pustulosa" on the third article of below link,

http://www.seaslugforum.net/phylpust.htm

But I still will send more big & clear picture to them to 100% identity the species. (I will update to you once I got the news. we learn new thing )

About the "Sea Cucumber" I couldent find it on the web. I will send them too about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
3 weeks for the dragonets is not nearly enough time to judge success. The sooner you have the new tank up and running the better. More commonly, dragonets will not accept prepared food and will exhaust the natural food supply of such a small tank after only a few short month (if not sooner). Watch their bellies do not become sunken, that would be a sure sign. If anything, these should be really be returned until the new tank is ready and had time to mature.
Hmm... Now I really start worry about this, I hope it will not give me any bad news before I got the 4 feets tank.

P/s: I setup marine, I don't mind their value, even it is cheap or not, but If they pass away by my own careless, my heart will very uncomfortable and feel very sorry for them cause my own fault. I wish to do the best to them since I choose to take care them.
__________________
Best Regards,
- Andersen

P/s: English is my 7th languages in my life, I hope reader could understand my broken English

Currently : Having the 2 feet Aquarium tank for Reef setup.

Soon : On the way for setup L=72" X W=24" X H= 30" Aquarium for Reef. -_-" very costly...
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:04 AM   #20
steve-s
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Originally Posted by andersen
I wish to do the best to them since I choose to take care them.
That's all any of us can hope for. I hope you have the best success and the new tank is up and properly cycled soon.

Cheers
Steve
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