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Old 11-30-2008, 08:19 PM   #21
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Well... since you're not interested in answering questions as to why cycling with fish is a better method, I'm done following this thread. Seems to me that you're the one that's being closed minded around here if you're not even going to answer any questions.

Good luck!
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:53 PM   #22
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CLOSED THIS THREAD!!!!!! Excuse my French But just another Idiot trying to prove a point that does not make any since, Close Minded isn't the word... We are all here for Advice and to ask for help everyone is welcome to there own opinion but when it comes to someone trying to prove that cycling with FISH is better and can't tell us WHY? Then you don't deserve to even be apart of this Forum... Sorry Mentor and Moderators but just tired of threads like this that someone could say a cycling with Fish is BETTER... Well Hope everything goes well.....
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:48 PM   #23
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Keep the thread on topic, attacks of any sort will not be tolerated. The question has been asked that you please explain your position. I feel this is a fair question.

I am a FW person and am personally against cycling with fish for either FW or SW, the reason I feel this way is that I feel it is wrong to submit any fish to a toxic substance for no reason. Fishless cycling has the same end result with no potential harm for the fish.

People are not being closeminded. They are asking you to explain your statement that you feel fish cycling is better.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:48 PM   #24
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Everyone needs to step back and relax a little...

1. Damsels are hardy fish, and recommended as a cycle fish in "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Fenner. Widely viewed as the definitive reference on salt water aquariums.

2. I am posting my parameters to show, that my tanks is cycling and my fish are fine.

3. Every time I have cycled, utilizing other means; I have always experienced a mini cycle no matter how slowly I add additional fish.

4. I have yet to see any definitive quantifiable evidence that cycling with fish is not any worse than without fish. I understand the value of rules of thumb, but following them blindly is a horrible idea.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:55 PM   #25
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Here is an interesting blurb from the above mentioned book:

"The greatest testimony to their toughness is that they do "damelsfish duty" in "popping" new systems - establishing bio - geo - chemical cycling wihile giving the untrained aquarist his or her first taste of keeping marine fishes. Miraculously, most damsels manage to live through it all and some go on to live for many years."
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:57 PM   #26
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So let me get this straight. You are denying that as a result of your cycle that ammonia and nitrites are not at a high and toxic rate for the fish in the tank. When the "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" was written that was the accepted thing because no one knew any better. Now it is a proven standard that fish dont have to be put through that. That an ammonia source without the fish will accomplish the same thing. Did you read that article on the fishless cycle that I gave you or were you being closeminded. I have provided my evidence now where is yours.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Miraculously, most damsels manage to live through it all and some go on to live for many years."
Most damsels. That means some dont make it. And why should they have to manage to live through it.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:02 PM   #28
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yep im 51 and read that book 30 yrs ago
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:03 PM   #29
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Miraculously, most damsels manage to live through it all and some go on to live for many years."
Important words in bold. MOST live through it. SOME go on to live long lives.

Which means the process kills some of them, even though they're "hardy." And just being able to survive the process doesn't mean they aren't suffering for it.

There's no reason to put any sort of fish through prolonged periods of 2-3+ ppm ammonia when there's an easy alternative that doesn't make any fish suffer.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:07 PM   #30
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yep im 51 and read that book 30 yrs ago

First printing 1998...
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