A little confused

[OhTheHumanity]

Can you cycle a tank with cured LR? If not, can I cycle with shrimp even though I already have a few damsels, 2 sally light foots and a hermit?

 

[reefrunner69]

Can you cycle a tank with cured LR?

Yes and no, if it is truely cured, the tank won't cycle...it won't need to the bacteria for nitrification are already present on the LR. Even if you buy cured it is a good idea to add some food or a raw shrimp and see if the LR handles the waste, if no ammonia in 2-3 days, you know it's cycled.

 

[OhTheHumanity]

Can I add the shrimp with the livestock I already have in the tank?

 

[reefrunner69]

No, you should make sure it is cured in a seperate container like a rubbermaid tub. It is not a good idea to add the LR to a tank that already has fish and/or inverts in it.

 

[OhTheHumanity]

The LR I'm going to get already cured from Liverocks.com. But thats all going to change anyway, because I boaught an 80gal tank tonight. lol

 

[reefrunner69]

The LR I'm going to get already cured from Liverocks.com.

It will be out of the water for 24 hours or more. They have an excellent reputation for not much curing time, but it is not a good idea to add new LR to a tank that has fish and/or inverts. If it is already completely cured...what have you wasted? a couple dollars for the tub and 50 cents for the sdalt? If it isn't and you put it in the main tank...how much have you lost due to the ammonia spike??

 

[OhTheHumanity]

What's the difference between cycling with LR or cycling with damsels and inverts? I'm still going to get an ammonia spike. Then how long should I leave it in the tub?

 

[OhTheHumanity]

I've been trying to cycle for 9 weeks now and I'm really running out of patience. I'm about to kick all my stuff into the gutter...

 

[steve-s]

I've been trying to cycle for 9 weeks now and I'm really running out of patience. I'm about to kick all my stuff into the gutter...

What did you do to cycle the tank once it was set up and what are the numbers now?

What reefrunner is telling you is completely true and the rock you add to the main tank could easily add to your woes. There is a great possibility that the ammonia from the rock could kill all the existing animal in the tank. What are the animals?

Cheers
Steve

 

[OhTheHumanity]

I started with 8 damsels, they all died the 3rd week. I went back 2 days later and bout 4 more damsels. 2 days after that I added 2 sally light foots and a hremit. All seem to be fine, in fact each sally has shed. My numbers are as follows.

Nitrate 40-60

Nitrite 0 which has never changed.

alk 240

ph 8.2

ammonia .25 which has never changed.

All tests have been done Mrdel test strip. As soon as I can find a place that carries Salifert locally I'm going to pick them up.

 

[steve-s]

Nitrates are definately on the higher side but with zero nitrite, I would have the ammonia reading verified. Most likely you are getting a false reading or otherwise faulty test kit.

Your problem may be a little more indepth. Depending on the amount of LR you currently have, there may not be enough surface area for sufficient amounts of bacteria to colonize. What is your substrate? Sand or CC?

Adding any more than one or two fish to a 55 gal tank will definately cause huge water quality issues and most likely why the fish died. There is also the strong possibility of parasites or diesease if the fish were not properly quarantined prior to introduction. If adding the second batch of fish within a few weeks of the first 8 passing, there could still have been a pathogen present. That or the ammonia had not subsided. Did you at any time have a reading on the ammonia above 0.25 ppm?

Before you add anything else to the tank I would suggest having the LFS verify all your test readings and also do a large water change to eliminate some of those nitrates. Unless you can cycle any new rock outside the main tank, I would return the animals you currently have or they will perish.

Cheers
Steve

 

[reefrunner69]

ammonia .25 which has never changed.

All tests have been done Mrdel test strip.

More than likely the tank is cycled, the test strips are not accurate, IMO, and probably cannot read a level of 0 for ammonia. Take a sample to someone with a good test kit and have them do it for you. Also, if you used amquel to condition your water or for any ammonia issues, it will give a false positive reading for any kit that is not a salycilate kit.

 

[OhTheHumanity]

I'm going to disassemble the 55 and go with my new 80 and start from scratch. I can't leave my livestock in the 55 because I am going to put the 80 in the same pace as the 55. I'm just going to have to by a 10 and put livestock in there and see what happens. From what I understand it shouldnt take more than 7 to 10 days to cylce with shrimp. I currently have coral gravel, however with the 80 I am going to use sand.

The new fish and crabs have been in for a month after the other fish died and they are fine.

I can't find salfert and any of my LFS, how is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid test kits?

 

[two11devan]

What's the difference between cycling with LR or cycling with damsels and inverts? I'm still going to get an ammonia spike. Then how long should I leave it in the tub?

I think the biggest difference is just in how you look at it. Some think it is unethical to use fish to cure a tank because of the harmful ammonia spikes that occure when cycling a tank. Those who don't believe in using fish, will use the raw shrimp method or just use LR to cure.

 

[steve-s]

From what I understand it shouldnt take more than 7 to 10 days to cylce with shrimp.

It can actually take 4-8 weeks depending on how the tank is set up initially. The ammonia alone will take 7-10 days to form and possibley begin to diminsh. The nitrites can actually take a few weeks to subside.

Cheers
Steve

 

[OhTheHumanity]

Well crap. Here is my new situation. I bought a new test kit tonight. Results are as follows.

Nitrate 40 What can I do to lower?

Nitrite 0

PH 8.4 Isn't ideal 8.2? Any suggestions?

Ammonia 0 The kit I had was inaccurate.

So I guess this means the tank is cycled?

Now the new part. How do I get my 80 up and going without having to completely cycle again? Can I add the sand, put my old water into the new tank and fill the rest with new water / mix? Wouldn't this be the same as a water change? If I can do the old with new I will get a tub and mix prior to taking down the 55 so it is all ready at the same time.

Then I'll do my LR after that and put it into the tub after I make a new mix and get it warmed up and ready to go.

I'll stop here for now, though I have more questions I'll wait to see the answers to these. Sorry guys I just want to do this right.

When I bought the 80 last night I wasn't to concerned about cycling again. It was going to be set up the way I should have done it in the first place. lol DON"T LISTEN TO PETCO!!!!!!

 

[steve-s]

You can transfer everything as is except the animals. The 80 will still cycle somewhat given you are almost doubling the volume. Might not get any ammonia but could get some nitrites and even higher nitrates. You will need to add the appropiate amount of dead sand and then transfer the sand and rock from the 55. If you where thinking of increasing the amount of rock, I'd take this opportunity to return the inverts and start things off in the right direction.

Once the new 80 is cycled and running properly, you can then safely start stocking the tank without any issues hopefully If you take the route of keeping everything and just continuing on, there is a good chance you will have more problems down the road. If this was a well established tank this would be much less an issue but with a newly set up tank I think it will be a headache.

Cheers
Steve

 

[OhTheHumanity]

All I have in the tank is 6 pounds of rock. and coral gravel which I don't want. I'll Start anew with a dead sand base and add some live sand on top of that.

How many lbs of LS would you reccomend putting on top of the dead sand?

Would it help to put a couple of cup fulls of the coral gravel I have now in to also help seed?

 

[steve-s]

How many lbs of LS would you reccomend putting on top of the dead sand?

None, don't waste your money.

Would it help to put a couple of cup fulls of the coral gravel I have now in to also help seed?

It would help immensley but is would not place it loose in the tank. Get a new pair of nylons (or get the g/f to get them) and make some softball sized CC bags from the 55 and bury them in the new sand. This will colonize a fair amount of bacteria and possibley any critters without leaving a mess with trying to remove the CC later.

With only 6 lbs of LR, I would definately suggest much more if this is to be a reef tank. Getting it now while the tank is being re-set up so to speak would be ideal.

Cheers
Steve

 

[OhTheHumanity]

Great idea with the nylons. How about a pair of 15 year old gym socks? kidding

I'm going to try and track down some tropical play sand. I don't think I'll get any critters out of that.

As for the rock I have already decided to get atleast 120lbs. Problem is Liverocks.com won't have any until MMarch.

So I will have to put the rock in a container for a few days before I incorporate it.

How about I just fly you out for a few days and you do it for me???? lol