Absolute Minimal Salt Water Aquarium

[blasterx]

In the interest of cost savings I would check your local hardware store for sand, I bet you can get it cheaper and also remember sand is heavy and costs a lot to ship.

 

[thincat]

A couple of weeks. Just remember...Nothing fast happens to a reef tank except problems. Check with your DLNR and see. You might be able to collect a few pounds a day legally.
The shrimp is your Ammonia source instead of a live animal as your source.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Thanks for all the great advice guys! I went with the ebay sand, as I got 30lbs for $20.00 and Priority Mail is $10.00 as the bag fits in the flat rate box.

I have been reading for hours each day and finding a lot of information. I came across GARF and their GRUNDGE product which is supposed to be some type of "super" sand meant for seeding a system. Has anyone heard of it? The site claims it is full of life and actually cures many types of algea and bacteria problems. They reccomend dumping some into a tank to seed the sand in it and base rock.

They also reccomend a 45 member cleaner crew for a 20gallon reef tank. This seems like an awful lot of critters. Would that be safe? How much ammonia to crabs and snails produce?

Anyways, the tank and everything is on the way. I will go pick up Instant Ocean at the local pet store when the tank and equipment comes.

As for de-chlorinating the water: Can I just fill the tank up with tap water and mix in the de-chlorinator right then and there? I could then mix the salt mix and then dump in the sand. This ought to begin the cycle, no? (The sand is claimed to have life as well that will last up to 3 weeks in the packaging the ebay seller claims to use). I imagine that if anything survived, I would notice changes in ammonia right? If not, I could get something such as this grundge or Bio-Spira?

Also, incase I decide to add coral in the near future, is my current lighting choice (the 65watt coralife as referenced earlier) adequate for some of the more simple corals?

Thanks!
Matt

 

[severum mama]

Hello,
Thanks for all the great advice guys! I went with the ebay sand, as I got 30lbs for $20.00 and Priority Mail is $10.00 as the bag fits in the flat rate box.

I have been reading for hours each day and finding a lot of information. I came across GARF and their GRUNDGE product which is supposed to be some type of "super" sand meant for seeding a system. Has anyone heard of it? The site claims it is full of life and actually cures many types of algea and bacteria problems. They reccomend dumping some into a tank to seed the sand in it and base rock.

They also reccomend a 45 member cleaner crew for a 20gallon reef tank. This seems like an awful lot of critters. Would that be safe? How much ammonia to crabs and snails produce?
Sounds like an awful lot to me too! Our 20 gallon reef has 2 turbo snails, 5-6 nassarius, and 3-4 astreas. They were added slowly, we took our time to see if our tank actually needed them so they wouldn't starve. We also have a peppermint shrimp for aiptasia control (plus it's cool!). We opted not to use hermit crabs because they often pose a risk to snails. Just take your time and ask questions. Chances are you will know if you need to add more CUC.

Anyways, the tank and everything is on the way. I will go pick up Instant Ocean at the local pet store when the tank and equipment comes.

As for de-chlorinating the water: Can I just fill the tank up with tap water and mix in the de-chlorinator right then and there? I could then mix the salt mix and then dump in the sand. This ought to begin the cycle, no? (The sand is claimed to have life as well that will last up to 3 weeks in the packaging the ebay seller claims to use). I imagine that if anything survived, I would notice changes in ammonia right? If not, I could get something such as this grundge or Bio-Spira?
I'd suggest mixing your water outside of the tank and then adding it to the tank after you get the specific gravity where you want it. It's good to let it mix for about 24 hrs. We don't use tap water, ever, but if your tap water is low in TDS I suppose you might be able to get away with it. The sand sounds kind of like a snake oil product to me. I'd be surprised if there is much life there by the time you get it, but I could be totally wrong, I don't know. I would not suggest using BioSpira. It's really important IMO to take your time and make sure your tank cycles. I use a raw shrimp and it works great for me. Just one shrimp cycled our 20 gallon. It is tempting to try and take shortcuts, but in my experience it will only lead to difficulty and unnecessary expense. I think it was Thincat that said "nothing good happens quickly in SW" and this is absolutely the case.

Also, incase I decide to add coral in the near future, is my current lighting choice (the 65watt coralife as referenced earlier) adequate for some of the more simple corals?
Well, you won't have a ton of options for corals, but you can keep a lot of the mushroom corals, some zoanthids/palythoas, some of the leathers... just do some research on corals that can grow with low light and ask questions here about the ones you like. I have a feeling you'll be limited to easy soft corals, *maybe* a couple LPS. There are some that are not photosynthetic, but the flipside to that is that they must be target fed often. When you get some more money, you could always just add a second 65W strip light. That's what we did (I already had one laying around, so it was cheaper just to order a second one). Now we can even keep some of the SPS corals. When you're ready to add to your lighting, you will have a lot more possibilities.

Thanks!
Matt

Comments in green.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
thank you for the tips, and I will be sure to ask here before doing something. As of right now, I just want to keep things simple. A couple crabs, shrimp, and fish. Coral is expensive! Sheesh! And then there is shipping! Uggg! I have a petco near me. Has anyone been to petco looking for salt water stuff? I know they have it, as I would go there just to look around in the past, but never made note of anything such as coral or live rock ect.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[mhart032]

I have heard nothing good about Petco.. i stayed away from petco even know their prices are cheaper. i believe it to be a "you get what you pay for" and i dont think i want to buy something from a place that mite have a high school kid that doesnt care about anything besides where the party is and doesnt know much about this hobby and cant give you th advice that you mite need to sell me anything or take care of anything that i may put in my tank.. if you dont have any other options then you have to do what you have to do.. i hope i didnt offend anyone with my petco comments but its just my opionin. try and stick to a good local fish store and talk to the people before you buy see what kind of knowledge they have about the hobby and fish and ect. this will help you in the long run. i went to 4 differnt LFS before i found one that knew what they were doing and very helpfull, its 30 miles from my house but IMO every mile is worth the trip knowing that im going to get good advice and a good product...
Matt

 

[severum mama]

I would never purchase any marine livestock from Petco. I've seen very little there that looks healthy.

 

[cichildnewbie09]

Mrg...I'm in the same boat, wanting to do the SW thing in a ten gal, after all the cost of ten gal set-up I'm thinking i will just wait a little longer with a bit more budget and get a bigger tank set-up.

 

[mrg02d]

Yes, cost seems like something that is unavoidable! Fortunately, I was able to sell some stuff on ebay that further extended my budget. I got a Koralia 1 power head and a Marine Land Stealth 100W heater. I also got a digital thermometer and a 65W Coralife light. (With actinic blue or something its called?).

Fotunately for me, a reputable pet store is a mile down the road from me that sells alot of salt water stuff including live rock! That will no doubt save me alot of money! I havent been by, but their mini website claims they sell it. I have been there in the past for iguana stuff and they looked alright. (Carol's Critters).

I will go by there when my tank comes in the mail. (Next week).
MAtt

 

[bumblebee1976]

My tank is acrylic and it shipped fine. The live rock hasn't scratched it as far as I am aware and I have moved it around a lot. Acrylic gives better visibility and is tougher but more prone to scratching. I can't recommend the tank I've got enough - it really has been so easy to use. No protein skimmers or uv filters to mess with. The only down side is that the light only supports low-light corals (officially none). One other down side might be that you have to remove a lot of rock before you can get to the filter because it is at the bottom. This was designed to be the best for filtration, drawing impurities down through the media where it naturally settles. Your choice of course but simplicity and reliability have won me over, it has proven itself. Though most people are against the biorb, it has worked for me. I think mature, decent live rock is the key. It cycled my tank instantly and the params have remained at 0, 2 months on. Good luck!

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
While waiting for the tank, I have been reading up on water. I will need around 18 gallons or so I guess (leave room for sand and rock). I have ready nasty stuff about tap water, but just cannot ordering any kind of RO or DI machine. ($$$ reasons). I can buy de-chlorinator, but that doesnt do anything about any phosphorus or diatoms that may be in the water. Are there water test kits that will let me detect this stuff in the tap water before using it? Would the DIY filter+carbon be decent enough (along with the de-chlorinator) to use? There is bottled water refilling machine at a Publix near me that apparently uses 8 steps to purify the water with the final step being UV light. 30cents a gallon is great, but that means filling up 20 1 gallon jugs and looking like an idiot!


I know that a RO/DI machine is going to be the best advice, but its just out of the question (for now). I need to stop the bleeding ($$$) for now. I still have to buy the water testing stuff as well as a thing of salt.

Also, I got my 30lbs of "live" sand in the mail today. I need to wash it. This obviously will need purified water to wash, but how much? (A rough estimate). Is this something that can be done with a 5 gallon bucket and some purified drinking water? The guy swears there is live coralline algea in the sand. Even though I told him I could care less if its live or not, he still insists that I dont mistreat the sand as it is alive. (I bought it as it was $20 for 30lbs) If it really is alive, great. I plan to use live rock for cycling and seeding though.

So I guess to sum everything up, should I test the tap water or just go get 20 jugs filled up at Publix.

Thanks guys, the process will begin soon!
Also, how familiar are you guys with ebay sellers? Theres a guy with good feedback selling all sorts of stuff in my state. Overnight fedex to me is $20.00 and he gives $5.00 back to those ordering in my state. (Florida).
eBay Store - Oceans Garden Inc: saltwater fish, coral, Reef
Does he seem legit? (Incase my local store is overpriced or such?)
Matt

 

[thincat]

"They also reccomend a 45 member cleaner crew for a 20gallon reef tank. This seems like an awful lot of critters. Would that be safe? How much ammonia to crabs and snails produce?"
In my 85g(65g w/20g sump) I have 100+ nirite snails, 5 brittle stars, 6 hermit crabs, 2 gobies, three clowns, 1 carninalfish, 1 bi-color chromis, and a yellow tang. I have not had to clean the inside glass for over 3 months now.

 

[mhart032]

As far as your water, i dont know if i would trust the water machines. you mite get a sample and test it. i ordered my ro/di from ebay, but i got water from my LFS i actualy got saltwater to fill my tank. i think i payed 1.00 a gallon but most aslo sell ro/di as well i think my LFS sells it for .40 a gal..
Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
So you guys got me on the RO/DI machine...I am a huge bottled water drinker as the tap water here tastes nasty to me. I love the Glacier brand water (which adds nothing back to the water for taste) so I could also drink the RO/DI water as well as use for my tank, right? Whats a good system on ebay cost? I found a few for less than $150 shipped, but know ZIP about what to look for in a system. How often do the filters and such need replacing? I guess what I am getting at, is how much will this cost me as in $/gallon to compare to what I would pay for it by the gallon somewhere else?

If its comparable to 30cents a gallon, id deffinately get one today! I hate lugging all my jugs to the store to fill up every few days (for drinking). Id love to be able to fill them up as I need them at home.

Anyone here have experience with the taste and what to look for in a system? Most of them on ebay seemed geared for salt water aquariums as their ads are full of fishy pics and whatnot. Id want to be able to hook this right up to my faucet and then have an easy way to send it into a 1 gallon jug.

Thanks for all the help!
PS- Here is a random example on ebay I found:
REEF + HOUSE RO DI REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER FILTER SYSTEM - eBay (item 200348604075 end time Jun-07-09 06:39:56 PDT)

 

[mhart032]

Yes its very good to drink, and it will be worth it in the long run, drinking it and doing your PWC if you have 18g of saltwater in your tank your gonna wanna do 5g PWC a week or so.. not to mention the its good for cleaning anything that goes in your tank, i use ro water to mix my superbuffer and chems i put in my tank. right now i have 5g sitting in a 5g bucket to clean everything and mix with my chems till i get mine.. not to memtion its gonna save me 1.00 a gal and hauling time from the LPS. i looked for one that was made for salt tanks. then i bought that model.. i bought a Bulky reef 5 stage, but you can use a 4 stage.. i actualy just bought another from a guy on craigslist that had one for 50 bucks w/ new 1 month old filters.. you could check their aswell.. but it will save you money!
Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I will get a RO/DI system then since it will serve two purposes. Can you tell me what to expect? Is it easy to hook up and get going? I plan to hook it up to a hose from outside as I dont want to attempt any plumbing here. (Renting). How is it operated? Hose as input, DI water as output?

Matt

 

[gzeiger]

You can skip the DI stage when you're making drinking water. The RO stage alone will make water plenty pure for drinking (more pure than bottled water) and it will make the DI unit last a lot longer. I'd still put it through the DI for the tank to avoid buildup of salts when you top off evaporated water.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Still waiting on my tank...I got my "live" sand in the mail. Not as white as the pictures show it, but its white alright. Very moist (havent opened the plastic bag its in yet). Any good ways to wash this stuff?

The sand came with some instructions and a tip to stick a hose in the bag and cut some holes. Seems this would spew chlorine and all sorts of bad into the sand. Whats a good way to get the sand ready for the tank?

Thanks!
Matt

 

[Dr_Doom2]

DON'T WASH TEH SAND!!

If you wash the sand, you'll kill any bacteria that remained alive through the storage and shipping process. The only way I'd wash sand is with water from an established tank which probably isn't available to you!! I didn't buy live sand, just plain 'ol aragonite, and I didn't even wash that. Doesn't seem to have caused me any problems!!

 

[blasterx]

I agree there is no reason to wash your sand