Absolute Minimal Salt Water Aquarium

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I used some ammonia I found at ace hardware. I went overboard with it too! Put it this way: Before the ammonia, I thought my API saltwater test kit was bad. Its not! It turned nearly black after half a cap full of the 10% ammonia!!!! (Thats way offscale! At least over 8ppm).

So I did nearly an entire water change and got it down to around 2ppm. I got my live rock today and put it into the tank. Within a few hours, the ammonia has dropped significantly according to my ammonia alarm. Claims 0.2ppm. I will be testing this with my API test kit soon. Nitrites are also showing now too. (0.25ppm)

I dont know if it was the live rock or something in the sand kicking in or the stress zyme, but since putting in the 15lbs of uncured figi live rock things have been happening!

So what should I be doing now? Im guessing I dont need to be putting any more ammonia in, do I? (The live rock has alot of stuff on it that is probably dead). It took one day to get to me and was inside a plastic bad, and covered in really wet cardboard. The rock itself was very moist. There were some dead maggots as well. Strange thing is, the rock didnt smell bad at all. Didnt smell good either. (Smelled like rock rather than death).


I could see alot of algae looking stuff on the rock. (white, red, purple). Should I be leaving the light on now for the rock? The water temperature is 83F. Should it be lower, or higher? Power head is on pointed at the surface of the water.

Whats next?

EDIT: I used the API ammonia test and its showing 2ppm, even though the SeaChem alarm thing I got says 0.2ppm???? Weird?
Nitrates are now showing too! Its either 5 or 10ppm. (The colors are just too close together) Also, Nitrites are at 0.5ppm.
matt

 

[thincat]

Did you rinse off the LR before you put it in your tank? Uncured LR has lots of dead sponges and other life forms that can over tax your system and make your cycle last longer then need be. 83 is on the threshold of the high side but not a big deal when cycling your tank. I would run the lights to be sure it works and to see if it raises the temp of the water any higher.
All you have to do is watch and monitor your system. When ammonia and nitrite hit 0 and stay there for a few days you're good to go.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I didnt wash off the rocks. Woops! There wasnt much stuff on them though and the seller claims to pre treat them somehow. There is some junk hanging from them that looks like dead plants or something.

I am having an issue with two things:
1-My ammonia tests do not coincide with each other at all. My SeaChem Ammonia alert that I hung in the tank now says 0.05ppm (down from 0.5ppm) but my API liquid test says 2ppm still. Nitrites are on the rise as well as nitrates...

2-My pH is staying steady at 7.8 rather than 8.8 (Where it was when I first mixed up the salt). The salt claims to buffer to 8.2-8.4 as does the live sand. Any idea why this is so? I dont guess I should raise the pH right now should I?

Temperature is 80F now. (Turned it down some). SG is around 1.023

Thanks guys!
Matt

 

[thominil]

Take some water to your lfs and have them test it. My guess is the seachem thing is wrong.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

When a tank is cycling, pH will bounce all over the place. Ignore pH until you're done cycling. And even then, it'll still most likely be "low" for the first month or so. Don't add anything to increase the pH... it'll just mess up your water parameters down the road. Trust me on that one... been there, done that.

I'd trust the API kit and throw away the seachem thingie. Regardless, it doesn't really matter at this point. You're seeing nitrites, so your cycle is underway.

 

[thincat]

+1...I agree with Kurt. Go with the API test kit. you are seeing a raise in nitrites and you will see a drop in ammonia. This is all good. Don't worry about the PH at this point.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello, thanks for the tips!
Now that ammonia is dropping and nitrites are dropping, I have nitrates getting higher and higher. Should I put some more ammonia in the tank?


I know that Nitrates arent anything to worry about with a fishless cycle, but could really high levels hurt the live rock?
BTW-Water Parameters todays as follows:
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrites: 1ppm
Nitrates: 60ppm
Temp:79.8F
SG: 1.023

Matt

 

[thincat]

You can do a PWC now to bring the nitrates down. This will not hurt your cycle. and you do not need more ammonia.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Do you think it would be alright to wait for the cycle to finish out with ammonia and nitrite at zero and then do a water change? This would save me alot of salt!

If not, what kind of PWC are we talking here? Or I guess a better question is, what should I get the nitrates down to (during the cycle).

Matt

 

[thincat]

You can wait and do a large PWC at the end. It's up to you.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

The excessive nitrates are really not a problem at this stage. High nitrates during a cycle isn't going to cause problems with the cycle.

As far as saving salt... in the end, you'll end up using the same either way to get your nitrates down. Regarding what you want to get the nitrates down to, I'd shoot for 0 myself. If a reef tank is in your future, as close to 0 as possible. If fish only, anything under 20 would probably be OK. But just realize that this is probably the lowest your nitrates will ever be.

With nothing living in the tank, you can easily do 50-75% water changes without a lot of concern about matching water parameters. Once you start putting life in the tank, that big of water changes will be tough to do.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Ammonia looks to be at zero today!
Went down to zero from 0.5ppm last night.
Nitrites: Still at 1ppm (hasnt moved since yesterday)
Nitrates: Still somewhere between 40 and 80ppm (The colors are so close)

Should I do a large water change now or should I wait to make sure the tank will rid itself of the nitrites?

I plan to do a HUGE water change as the sand still clouds the tank for a day if I stir something up. (Move the LR around, add water, ect). I plan to stir up a fierce sand storm and then drain like 75% of the water out and replace with new water. Hopefully the fine particulate matter will be drastically reduced. (When it settles, it settles over everything making the tank look dreary and cold).

Sound good? Should I add some critters soon to keep the bacteria fed?

Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello all,
Its been a few days and I think my cycle has hit a snag. Nitrites havent moved in days. Ammonia is at zero now every day, Nitrates have stopped climbing, but Nitrites are at 1ppm. When I first detected them they were around 2ppm.

I know that things take time, but it seems odd there would be zero activity...Could it be lack of ammonia? I started the cycle around 4ppm for ammonia and havent added anything since.

The temperature is kind of low, I accidentally set it to 79F. Its back up to 86F. Could this drop in temperature have disturbed or killed off some bacteria?

Would it be okay to add a little bit of ammonia to "test" my ammonia loving bacterias? (Im bored!). Seems neat to see the ammonia levels just drop off so quickly.

As a reminder, still no animals and I am using DI water + salt mixture.
Thanks!
Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
So my cycle looks to be over. Nitrites and Ammonia at zero. I did a huge water change and the nitrates are low now as well. (Maybe 5-10ppm).

I have two problems:
1-pH is consistently low. Looks like 7.8, even after the giant water change. (It really doesnt look like any of the colors, but 7.8 would be the closest match I guess). This is checked twice a day. (Day and night)

2-That dirty dirty sand that I didnt wash. Its still terrible. EVERYTHING has a covering of nasty silt. Even after two huge water changes in which I stirred up a storm cloud and then sucked out the water. Could this be fixed with a cheapo filter? Could someone recommend one?

I am ready to get some crabs to put into the tank to test the bio filter out! I really want to put in some fish, but would rather make sure something screwy isnt waiting for me.

Thanks!
Matt

 

[thincat]

Good deal on the end of the cycle. I would not stir the sand to much and just blow what's on the rockwork off with a baster. You could get a cannister filter but I don't have a recommendation right now. By crabs do you mean hermits, What type of salt are you using? At this point in your AQ I would not worry about your PH and let your tank find it's own level for now.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello
Yes, I mean hermits. Ive always liked hermits
I am now using Instant Ocean sea salt.
My gf seems to think the pH color matches best with the 8.2 color. My eyes have a hard time with these tests. If this id true, then pH is just fine, no?
matt

 

[thincat]

Okay, I missed this on my first post!!!!! 86 degrees is to hot set your heater to 79-80 degrees for now. 7.8 is not to bad on the ph and 8.2 is perfect for a tank this new. Yes. instant ocean is a good brand of salt and all should be good to go. Bring that temp. down to at least 80 before you add any crabs. Don't overdue it on crabs You only need a few and don't forget to add extra shells or they will kill all your snails.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I dropped the temperature down to 77F last night. This morning, the pH looks much more like the 8.2 on the scale.

I guess all is fine now. Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrites, and 5-10ppm Nitrates. (Both the 5ppm and 10ppm looks identical)

I guess some hermit crabs are in order, or maybe two small clown fish maybe?

I was looking at some pet stores in town, and surprisingly Petco had the healthiest looking clown fish! Very colorful, active, and funny little guys! They immediately came up to the glass when I got close. Sadly, I saw some poor Tangs in very small looking tanks. They came up to the glass too but gave me a sad look. They were in with the clowns and were just sitting by themselves looking depressed.

One thing that worries me is buying a fish that looks great at the pet store that winds up having some disease that will show up later. Is this a valid concern? If they look great when bought, should the likely be fine?

Matt

 

[thincat]

That is the reason for you to set up a QT tank and QT the fish for at least 14 days. Get a sponge filter and set it in your DT for a few days then get a 10g tank and set that up with saltwater and some PVC fittings (2") elbow or couplings. Then transfer the sponge filter to that tank and there you go. Don't have to be fancy. That way you won't get any unwanted disease in your tank. I know you want to get some fish in there right away, but this step will save you lots of headaches in the long run.

 

[mrg02d]

Oh yea....The QT tank...Booo...

I found a place in town that actually buys their clown fish from a breeder that is ALSO in my town. I may go by there today and see how they keep them and see if they are disease free.

I know a QT is best, but might it be a "safe" gamble that these local clowns are a safe buy? (If they are the only ones in their tank?)

Seems to me they would be disease free if from a local breeder, unless they are stored with some ocean caught fish. (Potential for disease).

So lets imagine the worst case scenario:
I get some fish and they wind up with fish HIV or something. Pretend I had a QT tank or whatnot. Would my main tank be infested as well? Do most of the diseases need a host, or can they "hang out" on the live rock and in the water?

Also, I plan on two clown fish because that is the most I will want. This will keep them from fighting right? Would they fight with future fish? (Non clown fish). How about hermit crabs and such?

I am eager to stock, but really dont want to have to have much right now simply because the clowns might be jerks.

Thanks!
Matt