Absolute Minimal Salt Water Aquarium

[CaptainAhab]

If you bypass QT for your first fish, your display becomes a defact QT. If they are diseased... well so is your display.

I would highly suggest that you research quarantine, fish disease and it's spread and damsel fish. IMO you're heading down a path that might cost you some unnecessary $$$ along the way. You're drawing conclusions and making assumptions that are questionable at best.

 

[thincat]

The clowns might be disease free and there is more of a chance with tank raised, but are the tanks at the live fish store disease free. If you get ich in on a fish in your DT, then it's in your tank. You would then have to remove all your fish into a QT for at least 30 days as to give the ich virus no host and let it die out. Your call. On the topic of the clownfish, get one small in size and one large. the large will become the female and the smaller one will become the male. You might still get some fights as the female test out the male.....see if he is fit........The clowns will defend their territory and become very aggressive if they mate and have eggs.

 

[gzeiger]

Most fish stores have a large number, if not all, of their tanks set up to share a common sump, so regardless of origin any fish in their tanks has been exposed to the same pathogens.

 

[thominil]

Most clowns will not pick on each other or other fish. Maroon clowns may/will pick on other clowns.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
This is terrible news about the parasite sumps and the fish and all.
I dont have any more $$$ for a QT (basically a whole nother shindig)

Maybe I will just stick with hermit crabs for now...I got 5 hermits. Well, it looks like 4 and one shell. I did see the clowns and did see a maroon picking on the "normal" clowns...

This LFS seems pretty good. They were concerned about whether I had cycled or not before me buying some $1.00 crabs rather than push alot of fish on me. They also were glad to hear I didnt torture any Damsels!

Matt

 

[thominil]

For a QT check craigslist daily because you can pick up complete 10g kits for next to nothing.

 

[mrg02d]

Sadly, Craigslist sucks in my area. Ive been checking since day one of this adventure. There was one good deal, but the seller never bothered returning ANY of my messages....Oh well...
Suggest any interesting inverts?
Matt

 

[thominil]

Well you might as well get some snails if you don't have any. I've always liked astrea and turbo's since I first got them.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
So I was reading up on Ich and see that it is the most common crap for a fish to break out with. From what I understand, Ich is like herpes and that its usually ALWAYS present, but waiting for a lowered immune system to rear its head...

So, if fish are kept happy and fed well (garlic extract soaked food?) they ought to be fine. As soon as they stress, out comes Ich and it begins to reproduce in the tank. Right? It apparently never goes away, just goes back into hiding.

It seems inverts. are rarely QTined. Right? Since I have no other fish in the tank, wouldnt it be alright to take a chance with two tank raised clowns and then simply remove them if/when Ich pops up? I could then stick them in some kind of cheap setup for medicine and wait it out. (Large bucket or something)

I dont mean to sound haphazard, just poor now. I deffinately spent more than I intended to when I first showed up here. Im guessing thats how things go though!

Seems to me that it is safe to assume that yes, they will have Ich but they should be fine if acclimated right and fed right. They will have plenty of places to hide in the tank and nothing to compete with. My water is still great! Zeros for everything but Nitrates. (5-10ppm). pH=8.2 or so.


Is it me, or do hermit crabs have something against algae? The hermits I put in yesterday do nothing but tear up algae! I had some fuzzy green looking stuff on a rock and its all gone now! The hermits herded together and spent a few hours removing it all. Now they are "hunting" more stuff down. I hope there is enough for them to eat. I dont know whats algae and whats not. There is alot of filament looking stuff on the rocks now. White in color. They are constantly picking at stuff on the rocks and shoving it into their little mouths...

Matt

 

[thincat]

Matt, It comes down to what you can live with. Tank raised Clowns are always a better option. Like I stated earlier..it's what is at the LFS that you have to worry about.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Hello,
So I was reading up on Ich and see that it is the most common crap for a fish to break out with. From what I understand, Ich is like herpes and that its usually ALWAYS present, but waiting for a lowered immune system to rear its head...

So, if fish are kept happy and fed well (garlic extract soaked food?) they ought to be fine. As soon as they stress, out comes Ich and it begins to reproduce in the tank. Right? It apparently never goes away, just goes back into hiding....

While this is often a point argued, I think you're buying into an argument that you want to be true. Personally, I don't think ich is always present. You can cure a fish of ich, treat a tank so that it doesn't harbor ich, and assuming you don't put anything else in the tank, there's no way for the ich to reappear. Using your main tank as basically a quarantine tank really limits your options when/if a fish truly does become ill... and not necessarily with ich.

A 10g quarantine setup - all completely brand new stuff - can be had for less than $100 easy.

 

[CaptainAhab]

I've search and researched this question for some time, to no avail.. the chicken and the egg....

Where does ich come from... always present waiting, or needing to be introduced...

Anyone having an answer with some science behind it, I'd like to know.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello guys...I couldnt resist and got two small clown fish. I did this after talking for a long time with the fish store people. I let them know I was without QT and worried about disease. They talked alot about it all and assured me that while it could happen, its a small chance with their clowns. (They dont sell captured clowns). I got to see the clowns. They were all very active and pretty! They were eager to eat!

They were actually MORE concerned with my speedy cycle. They simply couldnt beleive that I was right. They quizzed me alot and asked me so many different questions! In the end, they admitted that the tank had seen a cycle, but they still felt it was very early. They directed me to their cheapest type clowns and told me to watch the water very closely and feed every other day a very small amount. They also advised no more fish for the 20 gallon tank even though these clowns (they called them Nemos) dont get big. They said to wait a few weeks and put in some more hermits and snails. (Once I was certain that the tank was capable of dealing with the clowns).

So I took the clowns home and began acclimating. I set the bag (unopened) into the tank and let it sit for 20mins or so. Then I opened the bag and let it float. Every 10mins, I put in 1/3 cup of my tank water. Once full, I poored out half the bags water down the sink. I then repeated the process two more times.

I used a plastic serving spoon with holes to put the fish into the tank. They IMMEDIATELY went behind the live rock and began brushing sand around until there was a "ditch" in the sound bed. Now they wont leave. They are hovering in place together just looking at me.

After some time, I turned on the lights and one clown began to look around. He then began to swim around and explore. I seemed to really like swimming into the powerhead's turblulence. I put in a small flake of food and he looked at it but just ignored it. I saw the other clown was still in their "hideout" so I turned the lights back off. The curious clown then returned to his "pal". (These are small, not a mated pair)

So, do you guys hate me?

Is it normal for clowns to just stay in one place like this on the first day?

Thanks!
Matt

 

[thominil]

Yup, it's normal when the lights come on they may be exploring the tank. They need time to get used to their new surroundings. Could take from a few hours to a day or two. But I bet they'll be swimming around when the lights come back on.

 

[mrg02d]

Good to know that they are just scared a bit. I guess I will try feeding again tomorrow.

This whole no QT thing has got me jumpy. I saw a white spec on one of the clowns and FREAKED OUT until I saw it was just some sand! I guess I ought to attempt to scratch some sort of QT together so I wont be having nightmares of the clowns screaming in sorrow at me!

I am going to assume the bioload wont hurt the system since I went over board with the ammonia? I will check tomorrow to see if there is any ammonia. Maybe nitrates in a couple days. (If they will start eating).

Now, to plan for future animals...I guess a better CUC ought to be in order? (Just 4 blue legged hermits right now). How does 10 Astreas and 10 Nessarius snails sound along with a few more hermits? That ought be more than enough, no?

I would like some easy coral sometime as well. I have no idea how my lights stack up to others, or how adequate they are. Its a Coralife 65watt 50/50 with actinic lighting as well. (I am assuming 30watts actinic and 30watts VHO). Bulbs are about 20in long. Tank is 17in tall.


Could I get away with another small fish in the future? Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Matt

 

[thincat]

Well first off, We don't hate you! Don't overfeed your fish. Clowns tend to swim in place in a bobbing motion. Those CUC seem about right. Your LFS seems to be better then most. Lucky you. How big are your fish?

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
bad news....One fish has died. The one that never came out last night. The other is still in their spot from yesterday hovering in place. I guess he is fine. Although he isnt coming out now with the lights on.

I woke up to find this "shy" one panting and swimming real odd. Next thing he does is stop all movement and sink. No more gill movement, no nothing. Dead.

Close inspection shows no signs of trauma or disease. Still very pretty colors. Im guessing he just went into shock and remained that way. Maybe the acclimation wasnt good enough?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5-10ppm
pH: 8.2
SG: 1.025
Temp: 77F

Maybe these were "duds"? Is it possible they have some disease that doesnt show itself? Both still look pretty (even though one is dead). Nothing odd about them.

Matt

 

[thincat]

Sorry for the loss, sometimes no matter what you do they just don't make the transfer from one tank to the other. Did the LFS say that the clowns where tank raised and local. Call and ask him about it. Your readings are good. I would do the drip acclimation on the next fish you buy. You get a container, I use one the size that most use to change oil on their cars. I open the bag and clothpin it to the tub I then run an air hose line from the tank to the bag with the fish. I then make two knots in the air line and adjust the flow of water to about two drops per second. When the water gets close to the top I use a turkey baster and remove about half. I run this for 45mins to 1hr. I then pour that water through a net and put the fish into my DT. Be careful in using a net, some fish have protruding spines on their fins that could get caught.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
the dealer told me they were all tank raised and pretty hardy. I guess it was just a sad case of bad luck. The other clown is doing much better today. Hes now out and about swimming around and exploring the rock work. He also had a battle with a tiny hermit crab! The poor little crab had caught some junk in the water floating around and the clown came out and fought him for it! The crab kept pulling back and then the clown began bashing him. The crab gave up and took off. (Poor little crab).

The clown wont eat still. The food will float nearby him and he looks at it and then swims around it. He doesnt run away now when I approach the tank. Could it be that he needs a few days to get used to me before he eats? Should I get something that sinks? (He spends most his time near the bottom).

I will try the drip method next time...I wont be buying any fish for some time now though. My confidence is low...If this clown is fine after a month or so, I may look for another fish.

Matt

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I'm guessing you're using flake food? If so, push the flakes under the surface of the water so they don't stay floating on top. Don't know if my clown is normal, but it normally feeds from the lower 1/2 of the tank. It never eats at the surface. Also, try some of the frozen foods like mysis. The fish will want a variety of foods, just like us!

I think it's pretty normal for new fish to not eat for a couple days. In fact, I think it's recommended by some folks that you don't even feed the fish for the first couple days to allow the fish to devote 100% of its energy getting used to its new water parameters, and not digesting food.